kaboku68
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The need for a Girls Division.
I got some information on the NFHS participation survey form from 04-05.
Alaska had 70 high schools with programs and 1150 male wrestlers. This in proportion to the population numbers is really quite high.
The following are numbers of schools and girls
participating in wrestling at the high school level.
Alaska 32 72
Arizona 57 139
California 322 1,230
Hawaii 60 406
Maine 24 54
Texas 161 1,153
Hawaii and Texas both have separate divisions.
Hawaii has less male participants than Alaska with
58 schools and 1036 male participants.
Texas has 205 schools with wrestling and 5776 male
participants.
I believe that if we push for a separate division as
Abbie and Steve Gillespie have pushed for that we would open up and get more wrestlers than before.
I know that with Michaela Hutchison's success in wrestling that there might be the hope that her pioneering efforts would push for more integration and participation by girls in high school wrestling.
However, I believe that we could really boost important numbers if we create a separate division. I know that many of the girls who wrestle in JH and then grow to above 130lbs are "steered" away from wrestling.
This doesn't mean that there hasn't been some very competitive "heavier" girls its just that I believe that we are losing as a state by not creating separate but equal divisions.
I was an AD out in Nulato and when the girls team would fold and there was only one or two girls left that they were allowed to participate on the boys team. This option wasn't given to the boys but I believe that if a school doesn't have the funding or support structure necessary that this option would provide those girls without a team an option that would allow them to continue to compete on the boys side.
I have noticed that girls tend to wrestle with more emphasis on technique and really listen well. Some boys do focus on instruction and advice and some boys don't and strike to learn through the "school of hard knocks".
I know that there has been some pressure to create a separate division and that it has been rebuffed by ASAA.
I believe that we should seek to make a unified push to make separate divisions a reality.
On the negative side, I noticed that this last week some schools still adhere to the "I will forfeit rather than wrestle a girl" mantra. A Grace Christian wrestler forfeited to two different girls and ended up out of the tournament without even wrestling.
I firmly believe that the pioneering efforts of Tela O'Donnell, Abbie Gillespie and Melinda and Michaela Hutchison will be rewarded in a separate division that will allow more girls to participate and succeed in what we believe is the most rewarding and fulfilling of sports.
I believe that many more girls would be competing for state championships in the past if it was accepted.
I know for a fact that my sister pinned Scotty Hice-89" Service 103 lb State Champ- in the cougar wrestling room. She was the meanest, and most genetically gifted athlete out of our family. I think she entered in the Junior Ms. Alaska bodybuilding contest and got second in the state without lifting- They asked her what she did and she explained that she was a three sport athlete and sold formal women's clothes from a boutique 4-5 hours a day in high heels.
I also know that Gabe and Alex McMahon had sisters who were really tough wrestlers as well.
I believe that if we build the infrastructure for girls wrestling at the high school level -that we won't lessen the achievement of the pioneering girls who have already successfully achieved a great deal in AK and national wrestling history- but will make girls wrestling more accepted by the public and that increase total participation in the sport.
In other words, if the Alaskan wrestling community builds
the infrastructure the girls will come.
After the Tanana tournament, the RSMS team went to Brewsters to conclude a good year. It is interesting that the two students who were the last to leave and who were the most excited about wrestling were the sisters of two current 4A state champs. I believe that many of these potential wrestlers would be involved and actively compete if we created separate divisions.
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3/8/2006, 4:43 am
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KCoach
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Re: The need for a Girls Division.
To build on this thread and a few ideas we have come up with. We have been trying to improve the girls wrestling in Alaska, we had a women's division at the state tournament (exhibition) back in the early-mid 90's (but it was stopped by one individual).
Here is a new approach: Every third weekend (or at various predetermined tournaments) during the season, we could have separate brackets for the Women's division. (In the tournament we could have a tournament within a tournament.) These brackets would be treated just like weight class are separate. 103 pounders do not compete with 119.... At these tournament the women wrestlers would compete with women in their own brackets and weight classes. At other tournaments they would wrestle as HS wrestlers. This way we will be getting the best of both worlds. Good competition for all wrestlers, and an opportunity for the girls to wrestle girls and for the boys who are uncomfortable wrestling girls to have tournaments without them at times. It would increase the number of girls wrestling and stimulate the interest of the community as well. Then the state women's tournament would have a foundation to become much larger and possibly be sanctioned by ASAA in the future as a separate tournament, or a tournament within the tournament.
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3/8/2006, 5:31 am
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kaboku68
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Re: The need for a Girls Division.
I was hoping to do this about two years ago at the
first Hutch meltdown but was told that I would not be
able to do this and have the tournanment recognized
by ASAA.
I think that we should just push for separate divisions
and acknowledge the pioneering female wrestlers in
a division of the Hall of Fame.
I am short of tooth compared to most of the movers
within the coaching world so I probably am off track.
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3/8/2006, 7:35 am
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jeeps
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Re: The need for a Girls Division.
would the girls continue to be as competitive without the boys compition on the mat and there help in the practice room
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3/8/2006, 8:45 am
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jeeps
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Re: The need for a Girls Division.
would the girls continue to be as competitive without the boys compition on the mat and there help in the practice room
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3/8/2006, 8:46 am
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akwrestlinfan
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Re: The need for a Girls Division.
if ASAA would support a Girls Division would the girls still be allowed to wrestle in the boys as well? i know many girls who would be all for a Girls Division...as long as they were still allowed to wrestle in the boys also still
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3/8/2006, 10:45 am
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Kodiakcoach
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Re: The need for a Girls Division.
" and was told that I would not be
able to do this and have the tournanment recognized by ASAA".
And let me guess, the person who told you this has been a great friend of wrestling - right? This individual is also the one who divided the state into two separate wrestling seasons - correct?
Come to Kodiak my friend, we'll do it. Do not be afraid.....does West Valley need to have ASAA's approval to have their red, yellow, white tournament ran the way it is? No...yet if they follow the wrestling rule book, that tournament doesn't follow legal bracketing in a double elimination tournament or a round robin tournament. When competing at a village event, if a wrestler weighs say 113, and there is a wrestler at 103, and one at 121, do the coaches have all three wrestlers hang out and watch? I'll guess that there just may be an exhibition match or two, none which are legal in the rule book. Do the coaches/administrators call ASAA and ask for permission? In Southeast (and many places around the state) if there are a few kids at one weight class, do they combine weight classes to make for better competition? That also is not allowed in the rule book for tournaments sanctioned by ASAA or the Federation....is it?
Are we forced to declare what a JV wrestler is, or do some schools put their "varsity" by definition - their best wrestler at weight in a JV tournament. Does ASAA prevent this and say, no that is your varsitiy kid? Don't ask don't tell sometimes is the best avenue. Do you really think that ASAA is willing to go to court and get an injunction against allowing girls to wrestle against girls? All you have to do is host the tournament. The weight classes will be standard if there are enough wrestlers for competition and may be combined if necessary. As a special treat for the fans and competitors, we will be having a " Female exhibition tournament" for the female wrestlers who are eliminated from the Varsity Tournament if they want to continue wrestling. If time permits, we are having an exhibition tournament for the "varsity boys" who are eliminated from the tournament if the interest is there as well. Now you tell me that any individual would say we are not following what is in the best interest of wrestlers.
Therefore: At next years Robin Hervey Tournament, we will be having a girls bracket if we have anough girls to warrent competition between them. Medals will be awarded, and everyone is invited to send their female wrestlers to Kodiak for the Robin Hervey Invitational wrestling tournament, your boys team may or may not be attending, but your female wrestlers are encouraged to attend. (We may have some funds to help defray your girl's wrestlers expenses. If your boys team in coming to the island, we will try to make a similar accomidation for your girls.) Dates and times will be announced at a future date, as my AD hasn't given me the dates for our tournament yet. OK... one weekend has a special combined event for the girls, now who wants to host another. The first year maybe 3 will be enough one before Thanksgiving, one before Christmas and a third before Regions. That in addition to the Girls State Championship will make for a nice season within a season for the girls. (sort of like a JV or C team in Basketball or the JV season for football and wrestling..)
The other question, do I think girls wrestling would be better off separate from the boys - not totally separate. Michaela would not be at the level she is if she had only competed against girls, nor would Ashley, Michelle, and the rest.
Solve the problem, do not treat the symptom.
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3/8/2006, 6:09 pm
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kaboku68
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Re: The need for a Girls Division.
I believe that this separation issue should be a school by school basis.
Let's say you have a female wrestler who is the best wrestler and varsity by wrestle-offs over the boy wrestlers on the team.
Let her compete with the boys.
However, schools need to make sure that a separate team of girl wrestlers is also available to female wrestlers.
The girls team just competes with other girls teams and maybe in open tournaments.
A really tough girl might decide that she can make a bigger impact by being a team leader and getting all the
other girls on the girls team to be tougher than by competing on the boys squad. Let her make the decision if she is varsity for a slot on the boys squad.
I know that some girls actually would prefer to play basketball on the boys basketball team and would make an immediate impact-if they can beat out the boys for the varsity spot then more power to them.
I would hate to have a legal battle with some male athlete who decides that while his sex is male that his brain and identity is female so that they should be allowed to compete with the female wrestlers.
I think this is why Texas and Hawaii made separate but equal.
It has not hurt the sport in either state.
The wreslting rooms are filled with football cheerleaders who find out that wrestling is fulfilling and empowering.
They don't have to worry about allegations or impressions that are given by wrestling males who might put them in positions that are slightly compromising from a social perspective.
I guess my argument is that while we feel great when we
see a female wrestler use technique and perserverance to overcome obstacles, it might be more rewarding if we have complete female squads that make our numbers bigger.
There are a lot of mat managers out there who would wrestle if they were given the choice to compete strictly with other girls and that they wouldn't be embarassed.
I remember coaching a female wrestler who weighed
130lbs. She would work harder than anyone in the room and then would work extra hard with coaches after practice.
She had a match with a JV wrestler from another school.
He didn't use technique but just sought to batter and pound her by being physically aggressive and very unsportsmanlike. While the female wrestler was very inspiring to everybody there, she lost and was black and blue from head to toe. This wrestler didn't realize it but
he had broken this girl's spirit. He exaulted himself as a super stud. She had motivation problems after this-
no matter how much technique she had- she knew that
someone could just hammer her and beat her.
I believe that the girl had dreams of what she would like to accomplish in wrestling but some lug who presently doesn't even
wrestle figured out that while he couldn't beat her with
technique that he could just physically beat her up and was pleased.
This is less likely to happen at lighter weights.
However, the fact that wrestling is in its core, legalized
streetfighting, makes it problematic for females who are larger.
These again are just my observations
but I see so many talented jh female wrestlers
hang up their shoes rather than compete in hs.
Last edited by kaboku68, 3/9/2006, 9:13 am
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3/9/2006, 7:30 am
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