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Gooner442
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Re: Premiership thread
quote:
Big JP wrote:
Agre with this (although not about Tottenham being a mid-table team  ) I think the top 3 have got further away, and Liverpool are now in a group with Everton, Villa, Spurs & Pompey who will all be challenging for 4th spot next season (think Man city are over achieving this season) and teams no longer fear going to Anfield like the used to. Without Gerrard & Torres, Liverpool would be mid table. There are no longer a 'top 4' in the premier league with a chasing group, its a 'top 3' with a chasing group
Spurs challenging for 4th place....
..now where have I heard that before? 
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26/Feb/2008, 3:00 pm
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Gooner442
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Re: Premiership thread
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nathan8 wrote:
Take Adebayor and Fabregas out of the Arsenal team and they wouldn't be challenging for the title this year, nowhere near.
Didn't you all say the same thing about Henry last year?....
..over reliance on a couple of players seems to be Liverpool's downfall, you do have good enough players to challenge if they would step up to the plate
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26/Feb/2008, 3:05 pm
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Crofty7
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Re: Premiership thread
quote:
nathan8 wrote:
quote:
Big JP wrote:
Without Gerrard & Torres, Liverpool would be mid table.
This is a silly statement IMO. Take Ronaldo and Tevez out of the United team, and they'd be 10+ points worse off. Take Adebayor and Fabregas out of the Arsenal team and they wouldn't be challenging for the title this year, nowhere near. Take Berbatov and Keane out of the Tottenham team, and they'd be battling against relegation. Gerrard and Torres do play for Liverpool, so you can't think 'where would they be without those two'?
There certainly is a big 3 this season. It remains to be seen whether or not that will carry on over the next few years.
Edit: Just remembered a stat I saw the other day (probably 2-3 weeks ago) that pointed out that Tevez and Ronaldo had scored a greater percentage of United's goals this season than Torres and Gerrard have of Liverpool's.
Isn't this more about match winners in a team than just certain individuals. Without trying to upset the Liverpool fans out there wouldn't you say Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and possibly even Spurs have a few match winners throughout their team. For example, Man U played arsenal in the cup without Giggs, Ronaldo, Scholes etc, yet other players, Rooney and Nani stepped up to the plate and won the game (granted Arsenal were poor) however when I look at the man U Team and am looking for someone to grab a goal or do something influential I can say 7/9 of the man U players have the ability to do this (and I include vidic and Ferdinand in this). Chelsea when the squad is fit have match winners all over the park including Terry, Arsenal, granted adeboyer and fabregas have been awesome this year but, I think hleb, Rosicky, Eduardo flamini and now Walcott are all match winners. However when you look at Liverpool and you need some inspiration something to change a game it 9/10 it comes from Torres or Gerrard. I think crouch if he played would have more influence and like you say Babel next year will be awesome, but for this season I have to say Liverpool have a good team and Benitez can get them to play well especially in Europe but not too many stand out individuals which can change a game other than Gerrard and Torres.
I think the argument is more that the top three this year have teams full of match winners who can grab a goal even when playing badly, as where I think Gerrard and Torres (and Benyoun a little this year) are the only people you can see doing it for Liverpool when they are down and out.
I don't agree however that Liverpool would be mid table, I think whoever they had in their team Liverpool would be top 5 but for a team the size of Liverpool they should be/expected to be gunning for top 3 every season.
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Shield Champions 2008/09
3rd place in division 2 - not too shabby a season in the end!!
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26/Feb/2008, 3:06 pm
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Crofty7
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Re: Premiership thread
quote:
Big JP wrote:
quote:
nathan8 wrote:
quote:
Big JP wrote:
Without Gerrard & Torres, Liverpool would be mid table.
This is a silly statement IMO. Take Ronaldo and Tevez out of the United team, and they'd be 10+ points worse off. Take Adebayor and Fabregas out of the Arsenal team and they wouldn't be challenging for the title this year, nowhere near. Take Berbatov and Keane out of the Tottenham team, and they'd be battling against relegation. Gerrard and Torres do play for Liverpool, so you can't think 'where would they be without those two'?
There certainly is a big 3 this season. It remains to be seen whether or not that will carry on over the next few years.
Edit: Just remembered a stat I saw the other day (probably 2-3 weeks ago) that pointed out that Tevez and Ronaldo had scored a greater percentage of United's goals this season than Torres and Gerrard have of Liverpool's.
Yeah, sorry, didn't quite make my point properly. I was meant that without those 2, Liverpool have no real 'class' players IMO. If Man Utd lost Tevez & Ronaldo, they still have Rooney, Giggs, Scholes who will score & create. If Chelsea lost Drogba & LAmpard (as they have for a while this season) they still have J Cole, Anelka, Essien, SWP who will create & score. And as much as it pains me to say, Ar***al have been without Van Persie for early all the season who they would rely on, as well as Walcott, Hleb, Rosicky who will score & create. If Tottenham lost Berbatov & Keane, yeah they would struggle, but give them a while to see who the new manager brings in. Rafa has had 3 seasons (I think) and seems to have brought in too many 'average' players when a team with Liverpools reputation & history should be attracting better players
I wrote similar to you, you added reply while I was doing mine, but glad someone agrees especially with loads of angry Run board Liverpool fans.
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Shield Champions 2008/09
3rd place in division 2 - not too shabby a season in the end!!
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26/Feb/2008, 3:10 pm
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Big JP
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Re: Premiership thread
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nathan8 wrote:
quote:
Crofty7 wrote:
Without trying to upset the Liverpool fans out there wouldn't you say Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and possibly even Spurs have a few match winners throughout their team.
I'm upset at that!! 
Why Nath? We have eakes favourite - JJ
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26/Feb/2008, 3:12 pm
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Lennywelstock
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Re: Premiership thread
i think liverpool need to worry bout finishing 4th rather than looking at the top 3!!!
As Everton looked very good last night i know liverpool have a game in hand but they got to go spurs away, arsenal away, man utd away!! and they have everton at home.
Not easy and if i was to put some money on it everton would finish 4th this season in my opinion david moyes i think is a great manager and has created a good side!!!
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With the greatest respect to women, football is the most beautiful thing in the world". Slaven Bilic
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26/Feb/2008, 3:25 pm
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Gooner442
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Re: Premiership thread
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Big JP wrote:
Why Nath? We have eakes favourite - JJ
JJ's my favourite too!... he can run all day... what a talent!!
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26/Feb/2008, 3:27 pm
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Crofty7
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Re: Premiership thread
quote:
nathan8 wrote:
quote:
Crofty7 wrote:
Without trying to upset the Liverpool fans out there wouldn't you say Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and possibly even Spurs have a few match winners throughout their team.
I'm upset at that!!
I believe Liverpool should be right up there along with all the Liverpool fans and every year, this one especially I thought it was gonna happen, but you gotta admit, Spurs do have a decent attacking line up with not as many influential players as Man U etc but they do have a few match winners in there maybe more so than Liverpool just a shame they can't defend.
I don't know what the Liverpool problem is possibly the rotating, we know Rafa is a winner as he's won big trophies in the last 3 years may be his focus is too much on the cups (mainly Europe) than the league. Man U of the late 90's and Arsenal in the early 00's played a similar team most of the time with very few changes other than injuries. Rafa's Liverpool seems to change every week even if a player has played well he isn't guaranteed to play the week after which has gotta be gutting. Torres for example scored a hat rick versus Derby I think but was dropped for next game. This may work when trying to win a cup, but in the league you got to have consistency.
How many times do we read on the message board from church teams where they have players unavailable or injured for games saying that had they had their proper team out they would win the match or challenge for the league etc. it's the same in the premiership (only they have loads of dosh and don't have to attend weddings on match days etc) I know it's a squad game and there are times in a season that teams will have their squads tested, however I think the team who wins the league is usually the team who has been able to field the same 11 for most of the season. If you laid out the strongest 11 players for the top 4 teams in the premier league then there is little to choose from therefore it makes sense that the team who will go on to win the league is gonna be the one who plays their best 11 the most.
Same for the church teams if the Uni teams could play their best each week most would challenge a lot more often for honours than they currently do.
Also note: I think that was sarcasm from JP with regards to Eakes and JJ, don't think Eakes likes JJ much
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3rd place in division 2 - not too shabby a season in the end!!
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26/Feb/2008, 3:32 pm
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Eakes
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Re: Premiership thread
JJ ranks alongside the worst of them for me although I would concede that on Sunday he was OK. Still don't really know what it is he does though. Doesn't score enough goals, doesn't set up enough goals and doesn't defend brilliantly.
So unless someone tells me that every team needs someone that runs around a lot and can make 5 yard passes, I'll be sticking to my thoughts on JJ.
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Championes, championes, 00-we-oo-we-ow-we
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26/Feb/2008, 3:35 pm
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