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igen7
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one red breed?

I think all the red (non Holstein )breeds should come together to provide the necessary genetic pool to provide genetics for crossbreeding We need a strong breed to partner the Holstein in crossbreeding

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9/9/2008, 22:19   
 
smous
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Re: one red breed?

Yippee-kiyeah igen, thats very philanthropic of you!

 emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon

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10/9/2008, 5:35   
 
igen7
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one red breed?

smous
philanthropic----- that is too big a word for me

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10/9/2008, 9:14   
 
broa
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Re: one red breed?

once that one red breed has been properly crossed with the Holsteins and funneled through the index machine, we wont have much genetic diversity left, will we?

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10/9/2008, 23:51   
 
smous
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Re: one red breed?

My point was your generosity in proposing a breed/ colour goal the end result of which was to provide service to another breed. emoticon

Davyd makes a good point about people's lack of knowledge of the red breeds. A friend of mine who milks 1100 cows and thinks the sun rises and sets on anything New Zealand (he throws me a bone now and again when my wailing and gnashing of teeth gets too much for him) dismisses Swedish/ Danish/Norwegian Reds as "European Hobby Cows."

I take it Montys are included in your one red race world view?

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11/9/2008, 15:28   
 
svennis
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Re: one red breed?

In this context I would propose to combine Holsteins, Friesians and Normandes. After all they are all black and white. If we do this we would have a bigger genetic pool and wouldn`t need to crossbreed with the red gene pool! emoticon
Maybe Belted Galloways could provide some interesting genes, too...
11/9/2008, 16:45   
 
igen7
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Re: one red breed?

quote:
broa wrote:

once that one red breed has been properly crossed with the Holsteins and funneled through the index machine, we wont have much genetic diversity left, will we?

If we use 3 or 4 breed rotation i think it would be ok
The red breed need a large pool to ensure genetic progress unless we start proving bulls via crossbreeding



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11/9/2008, 22:09   
 
broa
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Re: one red breed?

quote:
igen7 wrote:

quote:
broa wrote:

once that one red breed has been properly crossed with the Holsteins and funneled through the index machine, we wont have much genetic diversity left, will we?

If we use 3 or 4 breed rotation i think it would be ok
The red breed need a large pool to ensure genetic progress unless we start proving bulls via crossbreeding



If we merge the red breeds into one, what you suggest we use to make up the 3 or 4 breed rotation?

Svensk Avel/Viking Genetics claim there's more genetic diversity within the SRB breed then there is in the Holstein breed. If that's true than I guess they're ok, for now at least.

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11/9/2008, 23:33   
 
broa
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Re: one red breed?

quote:
igen7 wrote:

quote:
broa wrote:

once that one red breed has been properly crossed with the Holsteins and funneled through the index machine, we wont have much genetic diversity left, will we?

If we use 3 or 4 breed rotation i think it would be ok
The red breed need a large pool to ensure genetic progress unless we start proving bulls via crossbreeding



what's the status on the 3 breed rotation scheme they been at in Calif, still showing impressive results?


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20/9/2008, 12:53   
 
LRG
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Re: one red breed?

Sometimes I think this is what the Canadian Ayrshires are trying to accomplish by introducing the SRB into the breed.

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Farm's Holstein Herd: 27 milking and dry. Classification: 7VG 10GP 2G 2F 6 NC.

My Holstein Herd: 1VG and 2 Calves
24/11/2008, 14:15   
 
LRG
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Re: one red breed?

You all know that I'm not overly impressed with semex with regards to their extreme use of SRB in the Ayrshire population. So I just looked around at the other Stud's Ayrshire lineups to compare them to Semex's use.

Select Sires, ABS, Foundation, Genervations and Genex have a total of 5% usage of SRB in their Ayrshire lineups.

Semex has a larger Ayrshire lineup than the rest of these combined. Their Ayrshire lineup according to their website consists of 64% SRB.

The breeders are for the most part getting fed up with Semex and most are moving to private sires. There is a large private sector now. These include Blackaddar BB Kellogg (Old, but still the top type bull), Loto (Sired the Grand Ayr at RAWF), Charleston and Remington. All four of these bulls are turning out some tremendous animals and they are in quite high demand. The problem now is Semex will not take bulls with these sires in their pedigree, because they are not proven. BBBK is, but his turn as an AI sire of sons is long gone.

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Farm's Holstein Herd: 27 milking and dry. Classification: 7VG 10GP 2G 2F 6 NC.

My Holstein Herd: 1VG and 2 Calves
24/11/2008, 14:59   
 
triday1
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…

the underground AI movement in the small colored breeds at times is very attractive, were if you breed the good bull, you make the cash. More importantly the breeders choose the bulls that get sampled, progress is slower but good or bad it is to the breeder's credit.

Last edited by triday1, 24/11/2008, 16:04


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24/11/2008, 16:01   
 
Eryl Vet
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Re: …

quote:
triday1 wrote:

the underground AI movement in the small colored breeds at times is very attractive, were if you breed the good bull, you make the cash. More importantly the breeders choose the bulls that get sampled, progress is slower but good or bad it is to the breeder's credit.

You make a very good point, triday. But the problem is that private proofs have been so abused in the past that no-one trusts them. For this reason, Holstein breeders are a bit like socialists in government. We sit back and let the AI studs take all the major decisions for us. If local breeder groups and interest groups co-operated better to test a few bulls each, we would have a far more diversified bull population. Just look what happened when Genus/ABS allowed a small group of breeders to select a few bulls under the 'judges choice' banner !!

26/11/2008, 18:46   
 


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