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Buckeye
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Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
In case anyone missed it, this former Semex millenium young sire has really come on. I believe he is long dead. http://www.ag-link.com/Bull/Bull.aspx?Naab=200HO04541&Site=L&Language=E
I have a 5 year old daughter of his that I really like. She is from a deep cow family that stretches 10 generations. Her Net Merit is $359. I feel she scores 88-90 pts very easily, and she will be scored this July. Medium sized cow with nice rib, good feet and legs, nice udder, and pleasing overall style. My father would like a barn full. She is a Luck X Luke X Holiday X Mark X Mars X Comet X Fond Matt.
She has a nice Rubens daughter that is one of my favorite two year olds. She doesn't wow you with super high production (20,000 as a 2Y, 23,000 last year, on pace for that again) but her fat test will (4.9 lifetime average). She is currently open.
Here is the question, what do you do with her? Flush her or breed her back? Who do you use?
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Buckeye seems like a one man wrecking crew out to rid the world of injustice. ----- Mayjay
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17/5/2007, 4:41
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ghz
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Re: Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
Flush.Blitz or Champion.You might get a bit more size and milk without losing the overall style.(my suggestion is totally disregarding indexes though)
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21/5/2007, 20:51
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JEB12
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Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
It might be risky also Buckeye but what are your thoughts on flushing her to Baxter. Looks like the best Blitz son at the moment and offspring should be in demand.
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22/5/2007, 16:35
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JeffNYRC
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Re: Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
We all think our animals will score x score, when in fact they dont. All it takes is one classifier that isn't minded towards the breed, instead minded towards a commerical type animal. Then you have a person who goes after an animal that milks well, vs an animal that lasts. Happened to me here recently, a couple were scored a bit wacky. Didn't expect them to score higher, but the score should have been reversed. One was scored 80, who has better teat placement, shallower udder, better fore attachment. An udder that will last. She also has a nice strong frame, and better F&L. Funny how she wasn't as "dairy", yet she is sharp, clean neck etc. But he was def. a commerical type classifier. I loved how he moved a rump score backwards, when in fact this one cow's rump is wider this year, and the slope hasn't changed a bit.
Best of luck, hopefully yours is type minded, vs commerical minded.
Jeff
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"You can't lose if you don't expect to win." - My show philosophy.
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23/5/2007, 2:53
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JEB12
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Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
Buckeye I understand what you are saying about Alta but, some of our best 2 and 3 year olds right now are sired by Throne, Adam, Finley, Merchant, and Tomahawk so they do seem to have some second crop success not that it has anything to do with their bulls in the future.
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24/5/2007, 18:31
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JeffNYRC
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Re: Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
The three alta bulls I have used, actually four have all thrown some decent heifers. One being a lowly bull, roylane karat. Might not be a super heifer, but for what he is, she isn't a bad animal. The others, two being Sully Orbit, and one being Merchant, the fourth was a bull. he was decent bull, was a tomahawk. Was pleased with how he did come out, I have one that I beleive he did breed, and one other im unsure of at the moment (have to preg check her). But those orbit heifers are decent heifers. They look right along side some of the better heifers out there. Orbit does have type, and Feet and Legs, udder I wont comment on, till they calve. But the F&L part of things is spot on, big difference all around over their dams, BIG improvement. The merchant improved the dams rump issue, F&L are better, more dairy, etc.
So alta does have some good bulls. Used some of Signature, which is a Jersey bull at alta. Have one of the heifers, sold the other, both are a good improvement over their dams.
But it seems your a weeee bit ****y there buckeye. There are a lot that think they can evulate up with the best of them. But if you have a classifier roam through the barn, that is looking for a commerical dairy cow, they will pick and choose who they think will perform well, vs who will actually last longer, and develop better.
For example, two heifers side by side when the classifier was here. One has some more veining than the other, however one has better F&L, tighter udder, better attachment, and teat placement. Dairyness is about the same. When I looked back, remembered what his main commnets were, they were mostly emphasized on her milkability. While its important, she wont last as long as the other heifer that scored 2 points less than her. What he also doesn't know, this one cow has fallen due to her F&L several times over, one time nearly split (was on the ground like a frog), got her back up, never bothered her. Now their F&L score was scored accordingly, but the overall score should have been the same or the opposite.
The biggest laugh was his dairyness scores. One animal gets a score for dairyness of 86, yet anothe animal, who is actually MORE dairy, was 82. The classifier who was here last fall was better, he evaluated for what they are, vs what they do. The way this Mays classifier evaluated, is what is hurting the breed. Vs giving the thumbs up to the cows that last. DOnt get me wrong, GP scores aren't bad, its how they ranked is the error.
Either way, the classifier comes here one day, for a short period. We see our animals EVERY single day, we see how they perform. His assessment is one minute.
Jeff
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"You can't lose if you don't expect to win." - My show philosophy.
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25/5/2007, 5:34
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Big Bird
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Re: Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
quote:
JeffNYRC wrote:
But it seems your a weeee bit ****y there buckeye. There are a lot that think they can evulate up with the best of them. But if you have a classifier roam through the barn, that is looking for a commerical dairy cow, they will pick and choose who they think will perform well, vs who will actually last longer, and develop better.
Jeff
Jeff
If you're honest with yourself about your own cows, and know what you're looking at, its not rocket science to know how they should score to within a point or maybe two.
It comes with experience.
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25/5/2007, 7:32
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ben warren
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Re: Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
quote:
JeffNYRC wrote:
But it seems your a weeee bit ****y there buckeye. Jeff
Stikes me that thinking you know more than the classifier when you have very limited experience, then telling someone else with plenty of breeding experience that they don't know how their cow should score, is being extremely conceited.
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25/5/2007, 18:52
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foxleigh
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Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
we have cows here that my husband hates,occasionally I'll slip one past him to be classified that I think deserves a better score then because he hates them that much he is amazed that they are VG.Then he tells the classifier he doesnt agree because he sees the cow everyday and the classifier only sees her for 5 minutes.
Classifiers cant win!
One year we had a classifier score all our heifers GP - which surprised us..... the next calving 3 dropped their udders.
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25/5/2007, 21:25
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JEB12
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Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
Jeff why not post a picture of both animals and have a cowtalk poll?
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26/5/2007, 1:07
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Buckeye
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Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
I will effort to get a picture of her posted soon. She sees the hoof trimmer next week. Perhaps shortly there after.
I had her ultrasounded last week and she was cystic. She was on her second service, I already knew she was open using the Bioprin blood pregnancy test. She may be a difficult one from a reproductive view point. She had a tough calving, and even though every thing scans ok, she is now on to her third service. I don't know how well she is going to flush. I think we will do a washout on her soon, to check things out.
As far as marketing, I think she is worth more to me right now, then most other people. I only have the one daughter, and being a Rubens she is pretty much a dead end from a marketing perspective, she doesn't carry red either. I need to find out how she will do the Luck will do, with Luke as her grandsire, I worry about how she is going to flush, because Lukes were absolute pukes in regards to flush work.
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Buckeye seems like a one man wrecking crew out to rid the world of injustice. ----- Mayjay
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29/5/2007, 2:23
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mootoyou
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Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
Taling Blitz sons I see Taurus have a Blitz X Windsor Manor Rud Zip, whilst I wouldn't really consider using a young bull to flush with, never the less he's perhaps an intriguing bull for the future. . . . . Maybe a young sire to watch out for!
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29/5/2007, 7:37
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mootoyou
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Re: Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
Wrong Bull!
Aren't you supposed to be on holiday Mark?
The bull I was looking at was called Windsor Manor Zinger; the cow Rud Zip is one which has a useful place in the breed, and I was looking more at the mating, than anything else, but he would be a full brother to the one you mentioned, so perhaps, if that type proof is anything to go off, it's not such a magic mating!
Last edited by mootoyou, 29/5/2007, 10:18
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29/5/2007, 10:15
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Buze77
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Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
Where did Jeff go on this thread? Probably find him somewhere with his tail between his legs after the tongue lashing he just got from half the Cowtalk community. 
How do you like the Rubens daughter? What does she look like? Does she take aftr her mother or after Rubens? I like the idea of Goldwyn x Pledge. I would try to keep the components in the pedigree, choosing a bull that sires positve components bc that is what makes this cow so unique from and marketable. If you start breeding milk into her without regards to components you could end up with a cow just like a lot of other folks32,000lbs of milk and 3.7% fat. Not that I wouldn't love to have a cow like that but as far as marketing goes 26,000 with 5.0 fat is much more marketable imo.
If it was my cow and I was going to be keeping all the young stock I would flush to Comestar Outside and breed her to the Goldwn x Pledge young sire.
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30/5/2007, 2:14
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Buze77
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Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
I suppose if your interest is in selling embryos than using an older bull may not be for you, but if you are interested in filling a barn full of animals that you will enjoy milking why not. If I am going to spend the money on a flush and I have no contract for embryos or daughters, I would take my chances with a proven bull with over 10,000 daughters over a breeder proven bull with less than 100 daughters. The next best thing may not be as good as one of the current best things.
Just think of of all the nice OutsidexRubensxLuck daughters you will have to work with over the next 6+ years.
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31/5/2007, 14:16
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JEB12
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…
What did you finally decide to do with this cow Buckeye?
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14/6/2007, 23:32
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Buze77
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…
just looked at Luck's proof from the link. Looks like his health traits are really pushing his TPI and NM$. DPR at 3.5 and PL at 5.7, kind of surprising considering he is a Lee son who have a reputation for being tough breeders. I really like the components he has transmitted. I too would also be interested in what direction you headed with this cow.
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15/6/2007, 3:28
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JEB12
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…
Just looking at Luck's pedigree also. Rudolph Dena is becoming quite the brood cow. With Mac, Marc, Malin, Max and now Luck she could be Dellia's best daughter. At least as far as sending bulls into AI.
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15/6/2007, 4:15
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Buckeye
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Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
She is not cooperating with flushing so I bred her this morning. We Lutalysed her after I first posted this and she didn't come in. ET vet said pop a CIDR in her. No initial response. Came in heat four days late last night. Since she doesn't seem to want to cooperate I bred her this morning, to Pronto. I did this more so because of her lack of cooperation coupled by the early daytime heat we seem to be encountering. It was 93F this morning at 11am. She classifies July 19th, hoof trimmer July 2.
Because of today's temp I wouldn't guarantee anything regarding conception rate.
She has caught the attention of several bigger name breeders here in Ohio, looking for something different. Depending on how she scores I may sell controlling interest and send her somewhere with a little more exposure.
I have a second Luck daughter that I just turned dry today, and I was looking at her today, and she may break 87 dry. She is a very deep bodied cow with great feet and legs. She is a little sacky, and doesn't have the highest rear udder, but she is another nice cow, except this one doesn't have any pedigree to speak of.
Last edited by Buckeye, 18/6/2007, 17:21
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Buckeye seems like a one man wrecking crew out to rid the world of injustice. ----- Mayjay
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18/6/2007, 17:05
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classcow
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Re: Regancrest-HHF Luck daughter
quote:
JeffNYRC wrote:dams.
But it seems your a weeee bit ****y there buckeye. There are a lot that think they can evulate up with the best of them. But if you have a classifier roam through the barn, that is looking for a commerical dairy cow, they will pick and choose who they think will perform well, vs who will actually last longer, and develop better.
For example, two heifers side by side when the classifier was here. One has some more veining than the other, however one has better F&L, tighter udder, better attachment, and teat placement. Dairyness is about the same. When I looked back, remembered what his main commnets were, they were mostly emphasized on her milkability. While its important, she wont last as long as the other heifer that scored 2 points less than her. What he also doesn't know, this one cow has fallen due to her F&L several times over, one time nearly split (was on the ground like a frog), got her back up, never bothered her. Now their F&L score was scored accordingly, but the overall score should have been the same or the opposite.
The biggest laugh was his dairyness scores. One animal gets a score for dairyness of 86, yet anothe animal, who is actually MORE dairy, was 82. The classifier who was here last fall was better, he evaluated for what they are, vs what they do. The way this Mays classifier evaluated, is what is hurting the breed. Vs giving the thumbs up to the cows that last. DOnt get me wrong, GP scores aren't bad, its how they ranked is the error.
Either way, the classifier comes here one day, for a short period. We see our animals EVERY single day, we see how they perform. His assessment is one minute.
Jeff
Your comments are very interesting Jeff. First, I do not think Buckeye was arrogant or "****y" as you say. He was just stating the facts. I have scored for a number of years and have had many different classifiers. THere have been 2 exceptions, but I have folloowed every classifier we have had very well. Most good breeders know how their cows will score and accept those scores. I have a friend who classified for many many years, and he always said it was the good cowmen that were easy to score for, the one who complained were the ones who really did not know the difference.
Classifiers evaluate thousands and thousands of cows each year and they will definitely miss one once in a while, but not by much. I figure anyone who sees that many cows knows a lot more than I do.
As far as your complaint on the "dairy" scores, do you know exactly what goes into that score? Can you explain that to me? You seem to mention sharpness a lot.
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25/6/2007, 23:19
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