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debutante
VG89
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Daughter pregnancy rate
1- How much emphasis do you give on dpr when chosing a bull ?
2- Do you think that dpr will take more place in the index in the near futur ?
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25/9/2008, 1:12
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Rusendale
VG86
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Re: Daughter pregnancy rate
I don't look at it....so many variables....its another thing to count and add in the equation that isn't as important as other functions that actually matter when a cow is standing in your barn.
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25/9/2008, 2:28
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Smurf4
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…
i always try to stick to bulls with a positive DPR, as a general rule i avoid bulls with greater than -1, but at the same time i dont believe that it is worth sarcraficing the high production and type we have come to expect of the Holstein Breed. A compromise is what is needed.
Here in Ireland a lot of breeders are now breeding solely for fertility with total disregard to production and type. Of course a cow that produces 4500 KG wlll have no problem gettng incalf, if this is seen as a step in the right direction I hate to think of what will come nezt.
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25/9/2008, 13:03
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Rusendale
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Re: …
I agree...What I meant by my earlier statement was I'm not going to sacrifice, type or production to make sure I use a positive DPR bull. Just so you know Buckeye, I use bulls from many different units and I have been using more American bulls...not just Canadian. My barn is only half full of Canadian bulls, much different than most in the area. My breeding issues usually come from families in the barn passed on to daughters, so I cull them out, like most dairy farmers would do.
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25/9/2008, 15:39
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JEB12
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Daughter pregnancy rate
Recently I was looking up reproduction figures by sire groups in my herd. Two things really stood out to me. We are milking over 20 Potters and they are averaging around 2 services per pregnancy. We are also milking about the same number of Morty daughters and they are averaging close to 6 breedings per pregnancy. They are all about the same age. Potter's dpr is +1 while Morty's dpr is -2.4.
Last edited by JEB12, 25/9/2008, 20:58
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25/9/2008, 20:55
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JEB12
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Daughter pregnancy rate
Anyone else notice that Shottle's DPR in the US has dropped to -2.70. Has anyone here had issues with getting their Shottles pregnant? Can this be due to so many of them being flushed?
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25/9/2008, 21:08
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robroy
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Re: Daughter pregnancy rate
Its not unusual to see the same bulls appear in the low fertility group in any herd..the main culprits I encounter on a regular basis are in no particular order...
Roy...Aaron...Progress...Capri...Lee..and starting to show up on a regular basis Lucente
worst Maternal Grandsires would usually include Juror and Luke.
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27/9/2008, 10:22
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errolston
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Daughter pregnancy rate
I agree on the importance of the DPR index.
I would warn though, as been mentioned lots of times on here before, that reliabilities for these traits are extremely low for a long time for young bulls and therefore have a lot of pedigree influence.
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28/9/2008, 9:58
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triday1
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Daughter pregnancy rate
This is the trait that people should be focusing on, on the US system rather than PL. Too much noise in PL. Holsteins won't breed is the #1 complaint that surfaces. I am starting a new cowtalk mantra, "breed for fertility, feed for production."
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28/9/2008, 16:39
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foxleigh
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Daughter pregnancy rate
on the subject of fertility - we are finding that animals that have had 3(generally) calves to one or 2 services each time suddenly become infertile and either not ever get back in calf or take a very very long time to do it(450 - 943 day lactations).Despite vet checks,pg programs nothing works well or consistantly.We will have fewer autumn calvers next year because many cows did not "click"It is still droughty.......could mother nature be telling us it is going to be dryier and therefore less favorible for a lot longer?
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28/9/2008, 21:02
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Smurf4
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Daughter pregnancy rate
A hardworking cow doesnt have to be ugly cow Broa!
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28/9/2008, 21:31
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Smurf4
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Re: Daughter pregnancy rate
You have a point Broa, but i think it is unfair to say that all cows that closely resemble the true type model are not profitable. First of all I think the true type model is sumething that is subject to a lot of variation. It is dificult to define because no one true type model will suit every farmer, for example in Ireland there are three main farming systems: Spring calving, Autumn calving and Spring/Autumn calving. Each of these systems demands a different type of cow.
I have seen that most farmers have their own interpretation of the model. It is up to the farmer to breed fertile cows. There is plenty diversity in the breed and tools available to do this.
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29/9/2008, 19:45
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Mayjay
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Re: Daughter pregnancy rate
This would probably be considered a hi-jacking, but anyway, the true type model reminded me of something I come across from time to time. This particular fellow is especially picky about the looks of the bulls that he uses. One would think that with the high standards, in the looks department, with our studs bulls, that I would be IN like a dirty shirt. He toss' the pics of the bulls around, saying, too feminine, not masculine enough, too this and too that. He has a great herd of cows, so who am I to judge. Twenty- five years ago I grew up hearing the same thing, only keep masculine looking bulls. Personally, I've always done the reverse, and kept feminine looking bulls, long in the neck, head like a heifer, refined in the legs and a deep rib. The offspring usually look the same and milk really well. What do other people do when choosing a bull to keep, discounting pedigree of course. Fancy gay or oxen straight.
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30/9/2008, 3:18
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POSAL
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Re: Daughter pregnancy rate
quote:
broa wrote:
A profitable cow does not necessarily need to look excactly lilke this (the one on the left)
That's right...but neither as the one on the right!!! 
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1/10/2008, 18:05
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classcow
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Re: Daughter pregnancy rate
quote:
broa wrote:
quote:
Smurf4 wrote:
A hardworking cow doesnt have to be ugly cow Broa!
on the other hand, how many of them resemble the "true type model"? and what percentage of the "true type model" cows are hard working, fertile cows that can handle life outside the box stall?
WHy would a True type model cow have to be in a boxstall?
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2/10/2008, 12:15
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broa
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Re: Daughter pregnancy rate
quote:
classcow wrote:
quote:
broa wrote:
quote:
Smurf4 wrote:
A hardworking cow doesnt have to be ugly cow Broa!
on the other hand, how many of them resemble the "true type model"? and what percentage of the "true type model" cows are hard working, fertile cows that can handle life outside the box stall?
WHy would a True type model cow have to be in a boxstall?
I didn't say they have to, but since they represent big $ value to the fancy type admirers, many of them are likely to spend most of their lives in a box stall, right?
and since they, in many ways have been bred and housed differently from the rest of the breed, I think it's a legit question to ask; what percentage of them would be able to compete in the same environment as the average commercial cow has to cope with?
Last edited by broa, 2/10/2008, 15:29
---
"It's nothing personal, it's just cowtalk"
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2/10/2008, 15:28
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JEB12
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Daughter pregnancy rate
Broa, I think a bull like Ramos proves that long lasting and profitable can come in a pretty package.
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2/10/2008, 19:18
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JEB12
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Daughter pregnancy rate
I am not suggesting that we ignore Oman daughters, but what Ramos daughters prove is that cows can look like the true type model and still last. He is the no.1 PL bull last time I checked. I think PL and DPR can come in many different packages and its unfair to pigeon hole all nice looking cows as high maintance cows that can only thrive in a boxstall.
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2/10/2008, 20:09
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FiringOnAllFour
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Re: Daughter pregnancy rate
I don't think he's saying that. I think he means that the true type model is not an automatic precursor to health, longevity, production and profit. True type may be found in conjunction with these 'on farm' factors, and it may equally not.
By putting selection pressure on type traits that aren't directly linked to profitability, we are sacrificing the selection pressure that we are able to put on things like DPR, which is undeniably linked to profitability.
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2/10/2008, 20:24
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