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FJRB
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SSBD "unoficial" beliefs
Following is an unofficial statement of what the SSBD group believes (the exact words of their main American believer):
"This is an informal unofficial statement of what I believe. If you do quote me the quote will be considered your own words - not mine.
"Also, these are not the Chosen Vessel's words - they are my thoughts only.
"We believe in the scroll of Revelation 5:1.
Revelation 5:1 "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."
"We believe the scroll of Revelation 5:1 is the latter-day scroll {record of the coming end of this timeline} which was shown to Daniel by the two Angelic messiahs Michael and Gabriel {see Daniel 10:21where Gabriel is speaking and says only she and Michael can explain it}.
"Daniel 10:21 "But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince."
"We believe a scroll {God’s word} came to life in all past generations and that the people who wrote the Bible were messiahs {anointed} of their respective generation. For an example of this see the gospel of John chapter 1:1 and John 1:14.
"John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
"John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
"Definition of the word "messiah" from the Strong’s exhaustive concordance:
"HEBREW:H4899מש××™×—maÌ‚shiÌ‚yachmaw-shee'-akhFrom H4886;
"anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint); specifically the Messiah: - anointed, Messiah.
"Definition of the word "anointed" from the Strongs concordance:
"s HEBREW:H4899מש××™×—maÌ‚shiÌ‚yachmaw-shee'-akhFrom H4886; anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint); specifically the Messiah: - anointed, Messiah.
"The words "Messiah" and "anointed" are sometimes used interchangeably.
"The word anointed in Leviticus 4:3 and the word Messiah in Daniel 9:25-26 are the same word in Hebrew.
"Leviticus 4:3 "If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering."
"Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
"Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
"Now compare those with the word "Christ" found in the new testament:
"GREEK:G5547ΧÏιστοÌÏ‚Christoskhris-tos'From G5548; anointed, that is, the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus: - Christ.
"We believe in following the living voice {messiah} of the generation we are in. And we believe that God {Elohiym}, can and often does, change the requirements of his people on the earth by testing us to follow a living messiah of God {voice of God} when God makes each new messiah.
"As an extreme example of this is John the Baptist and Jesus no longer requiring animal sacrifices in contrast to Moses law for forgiving sin {There are many many less striking changes new messiahs have made thus canceling out past messiahs' laws and commandments}.
"We believe when the scroll {of Revelation 5:1 and Daniel 12:9} came alive in the last generation it caused 2 messiahs to come into life.
"This is seen also in that the sword {word of God} of Hebrews 4:12 has 2 edges and that the Ten Commandments were made of 2 tablets signifying this.
"Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
"Exodus 31:18 "And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God."
"We believe in each generation, God made the two messiahs enact laws and do certain things that brought about an evolution of thought and understanding in God's people to help us be able to comprehend the righteousness of God's plan for the future.
"We believe the 2 sides/messiahs are representative of the Godhead and that each pair of two messiahs who manifest in the flesh are the Godhead in human form.
"Examples of these pairs of messiahs are:
"Adam and Eve were God's word made {created} in the image of God. See Romans 1:19-20.
"Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."
"Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
"Aaron and Moses were messiahs of their generation
"The two tables of the Ten Commandments
"Elijah and Elisha were messiahs of their generation
"Michael and Gabriel were the 2 in Angelic clothing
"John the Baptist and Jesus {Yahshua} were popular messiahs of 2,000 years ago
"The two edged {sided} sword {word of God} of Hebrews 4:12.
"The two sided scroll of Revelation 5:1.
"The two olive trees and candlesticks of Revelation 11:4.
"A theme that ALL of the pairs of messiahs spoke of {which isn't mentioned much now since it's unpopular and negative} is the destruction of the earth {time of trouble}.
"People in Christendom have been erroneously taught certain things. Here are four examples of erroneous concepts found in much of Christendom which are disproved by the Bible and prophecy.
"1. The erroneous idea that there was only one Messiah-- Jesus.
"2. The erroneous idea of the rapture BEFORE the tribulation.
"3. The erroneous idea that God is spiritually as_xual.
"4. The erroneous idea that in order for a person to be a messiah he must be perfect.
"Mostly anyone can get a hold of a Bible and read it.
"Many denominations of varying Christian beliefs have arisen in the past 2000 years.
"While I owe my awareness of the latter-day messiahs somewhat to Jesus of 2,000 years ago, I do not believe their ministry of 2,000 years ago is what saves me today in this last generation.
"I respect Jesus' {Yahshua's} ministry properly by understanding it was for the generation who lived 2000 years ago. A new messiah {latter-day Yahshua/second witness of Revelation 11:3} is now here and is teaching new light as John and Jesus did 2000 years ago. All the prophets/messiahs did this in each of their respective generations.
"The living God has given a final pair of messiahs for this last generation {this generation will be destroyed by the effects of a Comet impact in North America} which all the past messiah pairs were only types of {see 1 Corinthians 10:11}.
"1 Corinthians 10:11 "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."
"We believe in the Chosen Vessel as the successor to David Koresh.
"We believe David Koresh was the first messiah of the last 2 messiahs of this last generation and that the Chosen Vessel is the final messiah of the timeline from Genesis to the destruction of the world by a comet.
"What happened at Waco Texas was to alert the world to the Branch Davidian's theology on prophecy so all serious believers would study and find out about the Comet and the messiahs.
"I could go on and on. I really have other things to do today though. Maybe we will formulate a circumspect beliefs statement someday. The above statement by me is not official. It's just what I had on my mind in response to your questions. I could write for days but I will stop here for now. Thank you for your questions. I hope that you consider that most people (and even most pastors/priests) within Christendom are caught up in the world and in making money. This is a problem when it comes to spiritual matters. It's a conflict of interest. Most Christians are surface readers. To understand prophecy one must commit one's whole life to study diligently. One must know scripture {or be ready to study to know it} from Genesis to Revelation and be totally committed to understanding what it means. These are the type of people who mostly become Branch Davidians, those who have open eyes and open ears to look and listen with. Martin."
---
Solely in the service of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach,
Renee
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11/8/2006, 10:53 pm
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dondi
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Re: SSBD "unoficial" beliefs
Man, I cant wait untill March 2012. I know we, as Christians, are to take the higher road and not gloat; but man it is gonna be hard not to email him on that day. I will try to be Christ-like on that day; but after all the arguing and the name-calling (by him mostly) it will be hard.
Martin, if you read this, remember we are all praying for you.
Last edited by FJRB, 12/3/2006, 12:11 am
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11/9/2006, 12:44 am
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FJRB
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RE: SSBD "unofficial" beliefs
Dondi,
I wouldn't be so hard on Martin. He's just mirroring Renos' personality; and Renos is just following any spiritual experience he has (without using biblical discernment to know which experiences are of God and which ones are of the world, the flesh, and the devil). Renos is also following in the footsteps of David Koresh who followed similar doctrines before him. It's not that absolutely nothing was good about what they taught or did. I'm sure everyone does and/or says something "good." But they all yielded themselves without restraint to every spiritual, psychological, and fleshly experience without listening to their consciences. Eventually, their consciences became so dulled that they became confused about what was right and what was wrong. Cindy, Martin and Baruch, and probably some others, ARE born-again Christians; and I'm sure the Lord is trying to wake them up to the truth of the situation; but peer pressure, shame, disgrace, wounded pride, and the many years and much work they've put into this group are reasons they probably hesitate to leave. It's that way in any questionable group.
There's a lot to glean from The Emperor's New Clothes.
Last edited by FJRB, 11/10/2006, 8:31 am
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Solely in the service of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach,
Renee
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11/9/2006, 6:44 pm
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The Emperor's New Clothes
The Emperor's New Clothes
by Hans Christian Anderson
Once upon a time there lived a vain Emperor whose only worry in life was to dress in elegant clothes. He changed clothes almost every hour and loved to show them off to his people.
Word of the Emperor's refined habits spread over his kingdom and beyond. Two scoundrels who had heard of the Emperor's vanity decided to take advantage of it. They introduced themselves at the gates of the palace with a scheme in mind.
"We are two very good tailors and after many years of research we have invented an extraordinary method to weave a cloth so light and fine that it looks invisible. As a matter of fact it is invisible to anyone who is too stupid and incompetent to appreciate its quality."
The chief of the guards heard the scoundrel's strange story and sent for the court chamberlain. The chamberlain notified the prime minister, who ran to the Emperor and disclosed the incredible news. The Emperor's curiosity got the better of him and he decided to see the two scoundrels.
"Besides being invisible, your Highness, this cloth will be woven in colors and patterns created especially for you." The emperor gave the two men a bag of gold coins in exchange for their promise to begin working on the fabric immediately.
"Just tell us what you need to get started and we'll give it to you." The two scoundrels asked for a loom, silk, gold thread and then pretended to begin working. The Emperor thought he had spent his money quite well: in addition to getting a new extraordinary suit, he would discover which of his subjects were ignorant and incompetent. A few days later, he called the old and wise prime minister, who was considered by everyone as a man with common sense.
"Go and see how the work is proceeding," the Emperor told him, "and come back to let me know."
The prime minister was welcomed by the two scoundrels.
"We're almost finished, but we need a lot more gold thread. Here, Excellency! Admire the colors, feel the softness!" The old man bent over the loom and tried to see the fabric that was not there. He felt cold sweat on his forehead.
"I can't see anything," he thought. "If I see nothing, that means I'm stupid! Or, worse, incompetent!" If the prime minister admitted that he didn't see anything, he would be discharged from his office.
"What a marvelous fabric, he said then. "I'll certainly tell the Emperor." The two scoundrels rubbed their hands gleefully. They had almost made it. More thread was requested to finish the work.
Finally, the Emperor received the announcement that the two tailors had come to take all the measurements needed to sew his new suit.
"Come in," the Emperor ordered. Even as they bowed, the two scoundrels pretended to be holding large roll of fabric.
"Here it is your Highness, the result of our labour," the scoundrels said. "We have worked night and day but, at last, the most beautiful fabric in the world is ready for you. Look at the colors and feel how fine it is." Of course the Emperor did not see any colors and could not feel any cloth between his fingers. He panicked and felt like fainting. But luckily the throne was right behind him and he sat down. But when he realized that no one could know that he did not see the fabric, he felt better. Nobody could find out he was stupid and incompetent. And the Emperor didn't know that everybody else around him thought and did the very same thing.
The farce continued as the two scoundrels had foreseen it. Once they had taken the measurements, the two began cutting the air with scissors while sewing with their needles an invisible cloth.
"Your Highness, you'll have to take off your clothes to try on your new ones." The two scoundrels draped the new clothes on him and then held up a mirror. The Emperor was embarrassed but since none of his bystanders were, he felt relieved.
"Yes, this is a beautiful suit and it looks very good on me," the Emperor said trying to look comfortable. "You've done a fine job."
"Your Majesty," the prime minister said, "we have a request for you. The people have found out about this extraordinary fabric and they are anxious to see you in your new suit." The Emperor was doubtful showing himself naked to the people, but then he abandoned his fears. After all, no one would know about it except the ignorant and the incompetent.
"All right," he said. "I will grant the people this privilege." He summoned his carriage and the ceremonial parade was formed. A group of dignitaries walked at the very front of the procession and anxiously scrutinized the faces of the people in the street. All the people had gathered in the main square, pushing and shoving to get a better look. An applause welcomed the regal procession. Everyone wanted to know how stupid or incompetent his or her neighbor was but, as the Emperor passed, a strange murmur rose from the crowd.
Everyone said, loud enough for the others to hear: "Look at the Emperor's new clothes. They're beautiful!"
"What a marvellous train!"
"And the colors! The colors of that beautiful fabric! I have never seen anything like it in my life!" They all tried to conceal their disappointment at not being able to see the clothes, and since nobody was willing to admit his own stupidity and incompetence, they all behaved as the two scoundrels had predicted.
A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.
"The Emperor is naked," he said.
"Fool!" his father reprimanded, running after him. "Don't talk nonsense!" He grabbed his child and took him away. But the boy's remark, which had been heard by the bystanders, was repeated over and over again until everyone cried:
"The boy is right! The Emperor is naked! It's true!"
The Emperor realized that the people were right but could not admit to that. He thought it better to continue the procession under the illusion that anyone who couldn't see his clothes was either stupid or incompetent. And he stood stiffly on his carriage, while behind him a page held his imaginary mantle.
_______________________________________________________
In this, I see Renos as the emperor and those who follow him the closest as being the page standing behind him holding clothes that don't exist. Really, though, everyone in that group (to one extent or another) is like all the people of the land in this story who are too proud to tell anyone else that the can see that the emperor is naked. It is only the innocent child who is willing to be completely honest and begin unraveling the illusion. And, at first, no one really wants to listen to the voice of innocence and the voice of reason. They would rather say that that voice is foolishness. 
---
Solely in the service of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach,
Renee
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11/9/2006, 6:58 pm
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FJRB
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Re: SSBD "unoficial" beliefs
quote:
dondi wrote:
Man I cant wiat untill March 2012. I know we as christians are to take the higher road and not gloat, but man that is gona be hard not to email him on that day. I will try to be Christ like on that day but after all the arguing and the name calling9 by him mostly) it will be hard.
Martin, if you read this, remember we are all praying fopr you.
First, some corrections to the spelling/grammar/punctuation of the above quote:
"Man, I can't wait until March, 2012. I know we, as Christians, are to take the higher road and not gloat; but, man, it is gonna be hard not to email him on that day. I will try to be Christ-like on that day; but, after all the arguing and the name-calling (by him mostly) it will be hard.
Martin, if you read this, remember we are all praying for you."
Second (and more importantly):
I know it is difficult not to gloat when we are proven right. However, the Lord would not want us to gloat (Proverbs 24:17-18). After all, gloating goes against the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 13) and is an act of the world, the flesh, and/or the devil.
When Renos kicked me out of SSBD in March this year, it was really hard for me. I had poured my heart and soul into that group and its message; and I felt I had a genuine love for Renos (albeit probably an unhealthy love). In the two to three months that followed, I felt sad, alone, lost, afraid, abused, mistreated, and angry. In my worst moments, when I was especially angry, I think I probably could have faced Renos head on and told him to burn in the deepest part of hell forever for the way he hurt me. But, after a few weeks, I once again realized that though Renos has probably hurt a few people, he's probably no worse than anyone else in this and that the one who is hurting more people than anyone else is Satan. Renos is just accepting all spiritual and psychological manifestations as being from God without exercising enough discernment to distinguish which ones are from God and which ones are from the world, the flesh, and the devil. When I was a Charismatic (and even when I was an Independent Fundamental Baptist) I did the same thing. It's easy to do when you feel like life is completely unfair and everyone is against you (and especially if you come from a background where modern spiritual manifestations are expected and encouraged and where most people are not using extensive discernment). And, as time goes on, it won't matter what kind of a spiritual or psychological background a person has, more and more people will be seeking spiritual and/or psychological experiences that may or may not be healthy.
So Renos is just writing down all of his spiritual and psychological experiences without testing the spirits behind them. If an experience seems to be prophetic, it seems all the more to be a revelation from God even if it's not. When Satan sees that a person is taking the bait of ungodly spiritual and/or psychological experiences, he steps up the intensity, frequency, and duration of those experiences until the recipient no longer has the time or the energy to test the spirits behind those revelations (when the revelations first start, the recipient may have the time, energy, and willingness to practice more extensive discernment than later on). As these revelations increase in frequency, duration and intensity, the recipient eventually doesn't even really have the natural ability to write down everything s/he sees or hears; and s/he eventually spends most of the time just being a conduit for such revelations. The recipient may not be doing this for personal gain. In fact, s/he may be an unwitting victim of demonic deception. But s/he has lost the ability, energy, time, or desire to use biblical discernment in distinguishing the source of the revelations. And the devil is more than happy to play upon a person's zeal, ignorance, and lack of adequate discernment in order to lead astray as many people as possible. This leads to the inability to clearly hear the voice of conscience; the lack of evidence of the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23); the loss of the sense of right and wrong in most things; drastic personality changes; an inability to relate well to others; an inability to function in a healthy way; psychological illness; abuse of others; etc. And these symptoms will worsen unless and until professional intervention is obtained.
Renos really believes he is hearing from God. Cindy and Martin (and others) gradually came to agree with Renos; and now they promote what Renos writes and teaches. I like to put it this way: "As is the leader, so are the followers." Martin, Cindy, and all or most of the other people in the SSBD group are mirroring what they see in Renos (who is just mirroring the spirit that he is following).
Bottom line: Don't gloat. I know it's easy to do; but it's not of God. We are not here for conquest; and gloating goes along with conquest. We are here to point people back to the truth of Jesus Christ. We need to stay close to Him and let the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ shine through us (sort of like in the song, "Shine, Jesus, Shine." If we gloat, those who walk in darkness (while they think they walk in the light) will just be driven further into darkness because they are being taught that people like us are out to hurt them or are really proud and are the ones walking in darkness. They will be driven further away from Christ and not closer to Him. Pray for the Lord to give you a more Christ-like attitude about this today, Dondi. I promise He will. I've prayed for the same thing for myself; and He has faithfully begun that work and continues it in me.
Renos, Martin, Cindy, et al in SSBD, please know that I am praying for all of you. I know that all of you are children of God, especially after our lengthy conversations. The Lord has confirmed to me that all of you belong to Him; and I pray for you as part of my spiritual family. There have been things that it's taken me awhile to figure out and to understand; and I was pretty upset for awhile before I understood. But now everything is alright. God bless all of you as you continue to seek the truth; and may He bring a full revelation of the Truth to every one of you.
Love and blessings to all of you,
---
Solely in the service of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach,
Renee
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11/10/2006, 7:39 am
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DMskin
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Re: SSBD "unoficial" beliefs
Please, What do the Initials "SSBD" Stand For, Ive not come across
this before ?
Paul
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11/12/2006, 8:51 am
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FJRB
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Re: SSBD "unoficial" beliefs
Hi, Paul.
The initials SSBD stand for Seven Seals Branch Davidians, also known as Hidden Manna, and found at sevenseals.com.
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Solely in the service of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach,
Renee
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11/12/2006, 9:10 am
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FJRB
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Re: SSBD "unoficial" beliefs
quote:
FJRB wrote:
quote:
dondi wrote:
Man I cant wiat untill March 2012. I know we as christians are to take the higher road and not gloat, but man that is gona be hard not to email him on that day. I will try to be Christ like on that day but after all the arguing and the name calling9 by him mostly) it will be hard.
Martin, if you read this, remember we are all praying fopr you.
First, some corrections to the spelling/grammar/punctuation of the above quote:
"Man, I can't wait until March, 2012. I know we, as Christians, are to take the higher road and not gloat; but, man, it is gonna be hard not to email him on that day. I will try to be Christ-like on that day; but, after all the arguing and the name-calling (by him mostly) it will be hard.
Martin, if you read this, remember we are all praying for you."
I owe you an apology, Dondi. As an English major, I find your imperfect grammar, punctuation, and spelling to be a bit distracting (and I was already upset); but I was out of line to correct you in public the way I did. The Lord has been dealing with me about this for the last day or two, about submitting to others as I would submit to Him. Please forgive me. Thanks.
On another note, I do think there is a better way to communicate with Martin, Cindy, and others in the Hidden Manna group. Gloating is not an effective way to convince someone to change his/her mind and beliefs. So, please prayerfully consider how you demonstrate truth and represent Jesus Christ to others. Thank you.
---
Solely in the service of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach,
Renee
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11/12/2006, 3:54 pm
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dondi
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Re: SSBD "unoficial" beliefs
Aww, you know you don't need to apologize to me. But you'll have to realize I'm just a transplanted Okie livin' in Cali now so my grammer ain't right. Sorry had to throw that in. No big deal. I do realize I shouldn't gloat when March 10, 2012 comes and I probably won't, but it'll be hard. I argued with him and Cindy for almost a year. Mostly with Martin. Cindy I had a bit of respect for. She would argue theologically and not personally. Martin would not do this. Not saying either one is smarter; but Cindy had respect for herself, it seemed to me.
Last edited by FJRB, 12/3/2006, 12:20 am
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11/12/2006, 11:24 pm
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Come On Back to Me
Come On Back to Me
You've been hiding now for so long,
Never understanding why,
Running far away from the truth,
And, all along, chasing after lies.
I have loved you from the beginning,
Long before you knew my name.
Even though you've broken My heart,
I'll love you just the same.
I'll love you anyway.
Never mind your worries;
Never mind your fears;
They can only take you far from Me.
When you feel there's nowhere
Left for you to turn,
Well, I got all you want
And everything you need.
Come on back to me.
Do you believe in second chances,
Or in a love that never fades
Put your faith in what you can't see.
Just put your hand in Mine,
And I'll show you the way.
Never mind your worries;
Never mind your fears;
They can only take you far from Me.
When you feel there's nowhere
Left for you to turn,
Well, I got all you want
And everything you need.
Come on back to me.
Copyright Third Day
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=128659072
Last edited by FJRB, 12/3/2006, 12:23 am
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Solely in the service of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach,
Renee
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11/23/2006, 8:35 pm
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