What was difficult to understand about "we're not going to get into any trouble tonight"?
— James, Heroes #51

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Heroes  Volume 3   Tracing Satellite Navigation Receivers (#29) Support Search RSS runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?) knightflyer Gadgeteer Global user Registered: 10-2004 Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Posts: 244 Reply | Quote Tracing Satellite Navigation Receivers (#29) I'm sad to see the the myth of tracing satellite navigation receivers lives on in 2015 and in otherwise intelligent..., Oh, sorry it was Mage..., er james. A satellite receiver cannot be tracked as it is a receiver. If I were James I'd be much more worried about my mobile phone. Which can be traced to a few square kilometre cell on the Earths surface. I'd have my frequency agile strong encrypted private satellite phone network. Stuart Last edited by David Meadows, 15/8/2007, 12:53 --- Stuart --------- "What goes around come around." "And sometimes you get what's coming around." "And sometime you are what's coming around." Jim Butcher, Grave Peril 8/1/2006, 21:28 Send Email to knightflyer   Send PM to knightflyer David Meadows Editor-in-chief Global user Registered: 09-2003 Posts: 442 Reply | Quote Re: Tracing Satellite Navigation Receivers Someone made this point yesterday, and my off-the-cuff reaction was to say, "ah but in 2014...", then I realised that was complete rubbish. So, here's the official answer: it is actually impossible for the Krai (or even the US Marines, as we know they are) to track James & co through the GPS navigation system. However, back in issue 10 the K-Men arranged an ambush not by tracking their Sat Nav but by feeding the wrong info to it and sending them the wrong way. (Is that possible? I hope so...) After the ambush, Don must have figured out how they did it and explained it to James (this happened off-panel). James has either misunderstood, or he does understand and simply garbled his explanation to Sara in issue 29. Either way works (he's not really technically minded). So there isn't really a problem, but thanks for giving me a chance explain it for everybody else who's wondering. I suppose you're expecting an un-prize for that? As for phones, they do have special phones which Don got from his mysterious backers (i.e. Spirit). That's been mentioned a couple of times (back in volume one somewhere). They don't use a private network (Spirit's resources aren't infinite and launching telecom satellites is a big job), they use OSG's telecom constellation. You can bet they're secure and untrackable, probably making use of "undocumented features" in the OSG switches. God knows how I'm going to get all that info into an issue of the comic... Last edited by David Meadows, 8/1/2006, 22:03 --- "The imaginative child will become the imaginative man or woman most apt to create, to invent, and therefore to foster civilization." -- L Frank Baum 8/1/2006, 22:01 Send Email to David Meadows   Send PM to David Meadows knightflyer Gadgeteer Global user Registered: 10-2004 Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Posts: 244 Reply | Quote Re: Tracing Satellite Navigation Receivers Unfortunately for you feeding misleading info into the satellite will mislead everyone by the same amount in the same direction. The satellites broadcast a time signal which receivers use to fix their distance from each satellite they can see. So distorting the code effects all receivers. This is actually done by the military on the 'civilian' channel to diguise GPS accuracy. And the USGS has spent a lot of money undistorting the civilian channel for its own use. I don't think every thing has to be explained directly in the story unless it becomes important but having an off panel explaination for those who question your wisdom is ... well ... wise. Stuart --- Stuart --------- "What goes around come around." "And sometimes you get what's coming around." "And sometime you are what's coming around." Jim Butcher, Grave Peril 8/1/2006, 22:40 Send Email to knightflyer   Send PM to knightflyer lardboy Evil Genius Global user Registered: 09-2005 Posts: 217 Reply | Quote Re: Tracing Satellite Navigation Receivers Yup, I agree with Knighty! Aye it were me what raised the point, earning the first of my two un-prizes that day... Couldn't quite make it three though. Back on track with this GPS stuff though, is this (another reason) why the Yanks ain't happy with Europe nowadays cos they're making one which don't transmit "fudged" data to civvies? 9/1/2006, 12:35 Send Email to lardboy   Send PM to lardboy knightflyer Gadgeteer Global user Registered: 10-2004 Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Posts: 244 Reply | Quote Re: Tracing Satellite Navigation Receivers Dave bad news, I've thought about tricking (or spoofing as its known) satellite navigation receivers. Tricking someone to a known location by dragging their navigational fix to a different location would require their starting location to be known. In a military sense simply spoofing a receiver would be of benefit as it would then miss its target, a particular problem for GPS guided missiles. Spoofing a receiver to a particular location such as when hijacking a GPS traced truck (so that law enforcement authorities going to its aid would end up in the wrong place) or guiding people into an ambush would require prior knowledge of the location from which they are to be mis-guided. If logic is like this : 1. We need target here (where we are). 2. Here is distance metres from there (where they are) on this bearing. Therefore we need to know where they are (there). Either, we spoof their GPS by picking it up at its current location and then drag its position fix in the opposite (think about it) direction to that which we want our target to travel in as they move. Which will require us to know there position at all times, so we can steer them in the correct direction toward our ambush. This sounds like we will have a spy in their midst, also if they veer off our course for some reason they may find themselves steered back toward a landmark they were not planning to approach. We could hijack a truck this way simply by following the truck while spoofing its GPS before we hijack it, to draw its reported position along the road away from its actual position. Or we spoof the GPS and jump its location so our ambush point is along their expect line of travel. If the targets don't spot the jump this is similar to the above they may find themselves travelling toward an unexpectd landmark. Of course if the targets are following roads, and signposts, our option for changing their course are much more limited and more likely to be spotted. Regard the spy in their midst that could be an active mobile phone, location is a lot less exact than GPS; or a (possibly statutory) GPS fed vehicle tracking system (but then if we know where they are why not just ambush them as they travel). Now switching off you vehicle tracking system is likely to cause you other problems. Don't forget most vehcle navigation systems give directions that people can compare to signs and expected directions. So it is possible spoof someone into an ambush, though your driver would need to be 'uninterested' in where he was going to be drawn off course. Stuart Last edited by knightflyer, 15/1/2006, 11:15 --- Stuart --------- "What goes around come around." "And sometimes you get what's coming around." "And sometime you are what's coming around." Jim Butcher, Grave Peril 15/1/2006, 10:15 Send Email to knightflyer   Send PM to knightflyer knightflyer Gadgeteer Global user Registered: 10-2004 Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Posts: 244 Reply | Quote Re: Tracing Satellite Navigation Receivers quote: David Meadows wrote: I suppose you're expecting an un-prize for that? I'm thinking more along the lines of a promotion to Gadgeteer... Stuart --- Stuart --------- "What goes around come around." "And sometimes you get what's coming around." "And sometime you are what's coming around." Jim Butcher, Grave Peril 16/1/2006, 22:03 Send Email to knightflyer   Send PM to knightflyer knightflyer Gadgeteer Global user Registered: 10-2004 Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Posts: 244 Reply | Quote Re: Tracing Satellite Navigation Receivers I have to admit to thinking of a way to spoof a GPS, if it is is part of a vehicle tracking/taxing system. The vehicle will be part of the IRS 'network' and this may involve two way communication (neither the taxpayers nor IRS need know this) the GPS waypoints and maps could then be modified to control the movement of chosen people independent of anyone else. Of course this still relies on the spoofed target being unable to independently verify their location using their real world location. Now, if the highways agency have installed active signs that respond to a vehicles direction requirements they could be spoofed too. Or roadside signage may have fallen into disrepair as GPS navigation systems became common place. Stuart P.S. Dave why didn't you think of all that? --- Stuart --------- "What goes around come around." "And sometimes you get what's coming around." "And sometime you are what's coming around." Jim Butcher, Grave Peril 26/1/2006, 21:48 Send Email to knightflyer   Send PM to knightflyer Add a reply Link to us   -  Blogs   -  Hall of Honour   -  Chat You are not logged in (login)      Board's time is: 28/11/2009, 10:02