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mariantimes
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Detraction Websites
What do you think? do you think detractors like Unity Publishing should have carte blanche to renounce medjugorje and attack it the way they do, even though the Vatican has not done so? Is freedom of speech and personal opinion more important than saved souls? Do you think these Medjugorje-bashers (who, by the way, are supposedly Catholic) should take upon themselves the loss of souls who read their detraction articles and decide against coming back to God? Bit scarey isn't it?!
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10/21/2006, 1:35 am
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Thomas Aquinas
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Re: Detraction Websites
"Do you think these Medjugorje-bashers (who, by the way, are supposedly Catholic) should take upon themselves the loss of souls who read their detraction articles and decide against coming back to God?"
The Church has stated time and time again that belief in a private revelation is not necessary to salvation. You seem to be claiming otherwise. Care to elaborate on your theological reasoning? What souls would be lost by not following Medjugorje? That's cult-speak.
I'm interested to see, as well, if this is going to be an open discussion (as advertized) or if you're going to delete this post because it doesn't agree with what you're promoting.
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11/22/2006, 6:52 pm
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HailMary
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Re: Detraction Websites
Public Unity is a very very bad organization, if it's not approved they will knock it all the way. They use lies and lies and twists in everything they write.
They block out heavens graces and calls to many. They say they are catholic, in my eyes they are wolves dressed in sheeps clothing.
In these times Mother Mary is appearing everywhere around the world and there are many people who purposely go out of their way to knock her words down.
The occult and satan despise Mary and Jesus and when there's an apparition they are there to create confussion and try to dishearten the believer who can HEAR!!
Blessed are those who hear.
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12/5/2006, 5:58 am
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HailMary
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Re: Detraction Websites
Then again these times are very dangerous where ever you look or go. I've been and read many of the topics at the forum Medjugorje online and they also knock down many of the apparitions that have not yet been approved. Some of the moderators and those who post the most there even knock down Maria Simma and her messages.
I believe in Medjugorje without a doubt and many many of our ladys apparitions, but Medjugorje Online I believe not.
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12/7/2006, 12:23 am
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jd1961
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Re: Detraction Websites
I'm afraid there is nothing to "detract" from, as the events in Medjugorje have been officially condemned by the Church. It's as simple as that. It is unlawful to propagate the hoax of Medjugorje, a sin against the canon law of the Church. It is unlawful to go to Medjugorje as a pilgrim. These are hard facts, backed up by the CDF. The controlling authority, the voice of the Church in this matter is the local Bishop. But besides all of this fact, I find it unsettling that anyone with a discerning spirit can after 25 years of this nonsense continue to support this Blasphemous mockery of Our Lady! A disgrace!!! 
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1/5/2007, 2:25 pm
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amos4
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Re: Detraction Websites
The truth is that anyone can run their own website and write whatever they want.
I find it odd however when catholics will refer to the Unitypublishing site as "proof" for or against anything considering it's owner has no authority to investigate or declare any kind of final judgement.
The Church looks to the Zadar Proclamation as the only definitive statement on Medjugorje.
This document clearly stated they could not approve the apparitions, and that they were open to more nvestigation in the future. The document clearly stated people may travel to Medjugorje. The document did not condemn the apparitions.
The document did prohibit official church sanctioned pilgrimages (i.e. priests organizing parish-wide trips)
I find it interesting unitypub has taken the stance it did on Maria Esperanza despite the friendship and support she had from her investigating bishop.
It appears that when a bishop does not support the personal opinion of the owner of the site, he simply ignores it and proceeds with his smear campaign that is not based in fact.
unitypub can declare its own standards for discernment - can smear anyone they want.
The truth is that they do not speak for the Church, and the Church has more information than any of us, and the Church will look at both sides of the issue before issuing final declaration.
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4/25/2007, 12:40 pm
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mariantimes01
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Re: Detraction Websites
quote:
The Church has stated time and time again that belief in a private revelation is not necessary to salvation. You seem to be claiming otherwise. Care to elaborate on your theological reasoning? What souls would be lost by not following Medjugorje? That's cult-speak.
You miss the point. Unity Publishing arrogantly place themselves above the Vatican or think they know better than the Vatican. This would normally not be a problem I suppose, except that they deliberately indulge in viral internet marketing to get the word out all over the world, they write books, make movies.
How does this matter? Well, it goes way beyond simply having an opinion. Medjugorje is big news all over the world and it inspires unbelievers and rekindles the faith of backsliders (just what Our Lady is aiming for). These souls want to go to Medjugorje or have been there and been converted. THEN, somebody throws a wet blanket over them telling them about something written on Unity Publishing that the Church has condemned Medjugorje and lies, half-truths and innuendo. Ignorant of the facts, some souls buy this. They lose their fire and some turn their backs to remain unconverted, perhaps even dying unconverted. For what!!!!! Because Rick Salbato enjoys conspiracy theory more than he enjoys saving souls.
You say that the Church has told us we don't need to believe in private revelations. This is true. BUT, that is not what this is all about. The Church also tried to censure Bishop Zanic for speaking out against the apparitions before the commission had a chance to complete its investigations. Why? because it was causing confusion in the hearts and minds of the faithful!!!! Too late I'm afraid. The damage is done. Rick's (and others') websites have already used their viral campaigning to spread the same errors all over the internet. You can take that to the bank
Last edited by mariantimes01, 6/10/2007, 1:19 pm
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6/10/2007, 1:15 pm
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mariantimes
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Re: Detraction Websites
quote:
jd1961 wrote:
I'm afraid there is nothing to "detract" from, as the events in Medjugorje have been officially condemned by the Church. It's as simple as that. It is unlawful to propagate the hoax of Medjugorje, a sin against the canon law of the Church. It is unlawful to go to Medjugorje as a pilgrim. These are hard facts, backed up by the CDF. The controlling authority, the voice of the Church in this matter is the local Bishop. But besides all of this fact, I find it unsettling that anyone with a discerning spirit can after 25 years of this nonsense continue to support this Blasphemous mockery of Our Lady! A disgrace!!!
Thank you jd1961. You have shown the rest of the forum a PRIME EXAMPLE of someone completely sucked in by the lies of Unity Publishing. Unity Publishing are very clever. They pass off the local Bishop's condemnations as official church condemnations. What Unity Publishing will NOT post on their website is the official letter from the Vatican through Archbishop Bertone which distances the Vatican from the condemnations of the local Bishop. Throughout their website they say "The Church has condemned Medjugorje" when they really mean "the local bishop condemned Medjugorje". The Vatican NEVER LISTENED to the local bishop and tells the faithtful that they don't have to listen either. Please don't be fooled. Please read marian-times.com articles if you really care about having your misconceptions cleared up.
The vatican has stated time and time again that pilgrims are allowed to go to Medjugorje, so I do not know where this gentleman gets his information from.
After 25 years of this super-apparition, the Church (i.e. the Vatican) has never said a bad word. Pilgrims faced with the choice of listening to the Vatican or listening to the local bishop are obviously more interested in listening to the Vatican as far as the authenticity of Medjugorje is concerned.
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6/10/2007, 1:33 pm
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mariantimes
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Re: Detraction Websites
quote:
HailMary wrote:
Then again these times are very dangerous where ever you look or go. I've been and read many of the topics at the forum Medjugorje online and they also knock down many of the apparitions that have not yet been approved. Some of the moderators and those who post the most there even knock down Maria Simma and her messages.
I believe in Medjugorje without a doubt and many many of our ladys apparitions, but Medjugorje Online I believe not.
Yes, HailMary, you are absolutely right. The only reason I can think of for doing this is because these people have nothing better to do and/or love conspiracy theory and are trying to sell books. Let's face it. Americans live on a regular diet of reality TV, sensationalism and conspiracy theory. It's grist for the mill.
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6/10/2007, 1:38 pm
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MedjugorjeOnline
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Re: Detraction Websites
As the founder of Medjugorje-Online.com, I was certainly saddened to read this post, especially under the topic "Detraction Websites." Wow.
Paul, I've always admired what you do to battle the innacuracies coming from Unity and others like them. I was not aware you felt this way about the Medjugorje Forum, now at around 4,000 members.
As for anyone who may have been upset if a member of our forum was not welcoming to a different unapproved apparition or revelation: there is certainly a danger in grouping Medjugorje with the enormous number of other alleged apparitions in the world today. There are so many fabricated apparitions out there. We all KNOW that Medjugorje is real, and the messages from Our Lady there are very clear, very positive and numerous. Linking Medjugorje to other apparitions could one day detract from the message, should those other apparitions be condemned or bear bad fruit. Like Paul Baylis has done, we are called to be guardians of Our Lady's messages.
But Paul -- your statements about our forum are not very charitable, especially when you say things like "The only reason I can think of for doing this is because these people have nothing better to do and/or love conspiracy theory and are trying to sell books. Let's face it. Americans live on a regular diet of reality TV, sensationalism and conspiracy theory."
That's a pretty harsh and somewhat strange thing to write. First of all, our forum is not "American." Most of the members are not from the United States. I'm American, and I take offense to your stereotyping. I really don't know why you would write something like this, but you're attacking the wrong team. I hope you reconsider and pray for a more peaceful, loving approach that Our Lady would be proud of.
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6/30/2007, 3:41 am
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