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mariantimes
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Re: Detraction Websites

To be honest, I had not paid attention to the writer's reference to your website. I was listening to what she had to say about still-investigated apparitions being lambasted on websites generally. Therein lies my interest, solely in getting rid of inaccuracies because of the damage they do. It was absolutely nothing personal against your website and I retract anything that has damaged your reputation in any way. Please accept my apologies.
7/4/2007, 2:14 pm Send Email to mariantimes   Send PM to mariantimes
 
mariantimes
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Re: Detraction Websites

Regarding my comment about America: I'm one of those who believes that the USA was earmarked by God as a world leader, but I truly think they have blown it big-time by trying to clean up the world without first cleaning up themselves. Just look at your media circus. Practically anything goes. I'm not sure you can disagree with me that America is all about entertainment. It's all about new tnertainment concepts to attract more viewers and gain more ratings. Intrigue and conspiracy theory rank highly alongside reality TV shows. For this reason, I feel that the US media has been the most harsh and damaging in the case of Medjugorje. Look at all the main detraction websites - they are all American. It's not good enough for them just to hold personal points of view. It's as if they have to go to print, get a reputation, sell books. But, I don't want to go too far down that track. I feel that America could be great for the right reasons. I look forward to that day.
7/4/2007, 2:23 pm Send Email to mariantimes   Send PM to mariantimes
 
Ibelieveintruth
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Re: Detraction Websites

The Bishop of Mostar, Ratko Peric is the only person whose opinion counts. This from the pen of Archbishop Bertone of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. He says "Rome" supports the decision of the Bishop of Mostar and the Commissions. I don't care what Rick says. I only care what the Bishop says and he says there are no authentic messages nor revelations, no true visions no shrine. "NON CONSTAT DE SUPERNATURALITATE"

CONGREGATIO PRO DOCTRINA FIDEI
Pr. No 154/81-05922
Citta del Vaticano, Palazzo del S. Uffizio

May 26, 1998

To His Excellency Mons. Gilbert Aubry,
Bishop of Saint-Denis de la Reunion

Excellency:

In your letter of January 1, 1998, you submitted to this Dicastery several questions about the position of the Holy See and of the Bishop of Mostar in regard to the so called apparitions of Medjugorje, private pilgrimages and the pastoral care of the faithful who go there.

In regard to this matter, I think it is impossible to reply to each of the questions posed by Your Excellency. The main thing I would like to point out is that the Holy See does not ordinarily take a position of its own regarding supposed supernatural phenomena as a court of first instance. As for the credibility of the "apparitions" in question, this Dicastery respects what was decided by the bishops of the former Yugoslavia in the Declaration of Zadar, April 10, 1991: "On the basis of the investigations so far, it can not be affirmed that one is dealing with supernatural apparitions and revelations."

I hope that I have replied satisfactorily at least to the principal questions that you have presented to this Dicastery and I beg Your Excellency to accept the expression of my devoted sentiments.

Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone
Secretary



MEdUGORJE:

SECRETS, MESSAGES, VOCATIONS, PRAYERS, CONFESSIONS, COMMISSIONS

Ratko Peric, bishop of Mostar-Duvno

 The Church, from the local to supreme level, from the beginning to this very day, has clearly and constantly repeated: Non constat de supernaturalitate! No to pilgrimages that would ascribe a supernatural nature to the apparitions, no shrine of the Madonna, no authentic messages nor revelations, no true visions!

Msgr. Ratko Peric

bishop of Mostar-Duvno, BiH



SOLEMNITY OF THE MOST HOLY BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST

MEDJUGORJE, 15 - VI - 2006



Ratko Peric, bishop

 

Dear brothers and sisters

 ...... Secondly, I would be an irresponsible minister of the Mystery of the Body and Blood of Christ, if today I were not to publicly advise, from this place and on this occasion as well, to all those interested throughout the world, that in this local Church of Mostar-Duvno, there exists something similar to a schism. A number of priests that have been expelled from the Franciscan OFM Order by the Generalate of the Order, due to their disobedience to the Holy Father, for years now have been forcefully keeping a few parish churches and rectories along with church inventory. They have not only been illegally active in these parishes, but they have also administered the sacraments profanely, while others invalidly, such as Confession and Confirmation, or they have assisted at invalid marriages. This type of anti-ecclesial behaviour is shocking to all of us. At the same time, this scandal of sacrilegiously administering the sacraments, especially of the Most Holy Body of Christ, must shock all the faithful as well who invalidly confess their sins to these priests and participate in sacrilegious liturgies. We pray to the Lord that this scandal and schism be uprooted as soon as possible from our midst.

Thirdly, I am truly grateful to the Holy Father the Pope, to John Paul II of blessed memory and to the reigning Benedict XVI, who have always respected the judgements of the bishops of Mostar-Duvno, of the previous as well as the current bishop, regarding the so-called “apparitions” and “messages” of Medjugorje, all the while recognizing the Holy Father's right to give a final decision on these events. The judgements of the bishops, after all the canonical investigations made thus far,

On the basis of Church investigations of the events of Medjugorje, it cannot be determined that these events involve supernatural apparitions or revelations. This means that till now the Church has not accepted, neither as supernatural nor as Marian, any of the apparitions.

As the local Bishop, I maintain that regarding the events of Medjugorje, on the basis of the investigations and experience gained thus far, throughout these last 25 years, the Church has not confirmed a single “apparition” as authentically being the Madonna.

The Catholic faithful are not only free from any obligation to believe in the authenticity of the “apparitions” but they must also know that church pilgrimages are not allowed, whether official or private, individual or group, or from other parishes, if they presuppose the authenticity of the “apparitions” or if by undertaking them attempt to certify these “apparitions”.

Therefore I responsibly call upon those who claim themselves to be “seers”, as well as those persons behind the “messages”, to demonstrate ecclesiastical obedience and to cease with these public manifestations and messages in this parish. In this fashion they shall show their necessary adherence to the Church, by neither placing private “apparitions” nor private sayings before the official position of the Church. Our faith is a serious and responsible matter. The Church is also a serious and responsible institution!


10/5/2007, 5:21 pm Send Email to Ibelieveintruth   Send PM to Ibelieveintruth
 
mariantimes
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Re: Detraction Websites

The Vatican is in a strange position. It gives a lot or power to the local bishop in matters of private revelation. But, it won't necessarily remove a Bishop for holding positions that don't represent its own. IN FACT, in this case the Vatican doesn't have a position of its own, which is one of the main reasons why the Bishop can speak with a certain degree of impunity. The Vatican never rushes with private revelations because it generally considers them secondary and unnecessary for the faithful. Their true value is in converting the incoverted and for "refreshing" faith.

But, the Bertone letter you quoted actually speaks in favour of Medjugorje believers as it clearly states that the faitfhul are not to regard the opinions of the local bishop as the opinions of the vatican. It's a nice way to say "You can ignore the Bishop's statement that there is nothing supernatural going on. Furthermore, you may indeed continue to pilgrimage to Medjugorje"

quote:
Ibelieveintruth wrote:


CONGREGATIO PRO DOCTRINA FIDEI
Pr. No 154/81-05922
Citta del Vaticano, Palazzo del S. Uffizio

May 26, 1998

To His Excellency Mons. Gilbert Aubry,
Bishop of Saint-Denis de la Reunion

Excellency:

In your letter of January 1, 1998, you submitted to this Dicastery several questions about the position of the Holy See and of the Bishop of Mostar in regard to the so called apparitions of Medjugorje, private pilgrimages and the pastoral care of the faithful who go there.

In regard to this matter, I think it is impossible to reply to each of the questions posed by Your Excellency. The main thing I would like to point out is that the Holy See does not ordinarily take a position of its own regarding supposed supernatural phenomena as a court of first instance. As for the credibility of the "apparitions" in question, this Dicastery respects what was decided by the bishops of the former Yugoslavia in the Declaration of Zadar, April 10, 1991: "On the basis of the investigations so far, it can not be affirmed that one is dealing with supernatural apparitions and revelations."

I hope that I have replied satisfactorily at least to the principal questions that you have presented to this Dicastery and I beg Your Excellency to accept the expression of my devoted sentiments.

Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone
Secretary



MEdUGORJE:

SECRETS, MESSAGES, VOCATIONS, PRAYERS, CONFESSIONS, COMMISSIONS

Ratko Peric, bishop of Mostar-Duvno

 The Church, from the local to supreme level, from the beginning to this very day, has clearly and constantly repeated: Non constat de supernaturalitate! No to pilgrimages that would ascribe a supernatural nature to the apparitions, no shrine of the Madonna, no authentic messages nor revelations, no true visions!

Msgr. Ratko Peric

bishop of Mostar-Duvno, BiH



SOLEMNITY OF THE MOST HOLY BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST

MEDJUGORJE, 15 - VI - 2006



Ratko Peric, bishop





10/15/2007, 10:52 pm Send Email to mariantimes   Send PM to mariantimes
 
mari9
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All who are believers in Medjugorie are ignoring the fact that there is a lot of disobedience in Medjugorie from the seerers and the Franciscans etc. and that never comes from God.
 Fr. Jozo was in the U.S. and when he was going to be in Washington they were notified that his priestly faculties had been removed a long time ago and is not allowed to perform priestly duties. The diocese in Washington did not allow him to present what ever he had planned. They were obedient regardless of their belief.
 The Bishop is always listened to and given authority over his diocese. Can you imagine the Blessed Mother telling Juan Diego to ignore the Bishop. Can you imagine Jesus telling St. Faustina to just ignore the priest who didn't listen to her at first. On the contrary Jesus has always told the saints obedience first and he woud handle the rest.
The believers say that the detracters are spreading bad things about Medjugorie and that it is only their opinion which doesn't amount to much.How is it that the believers feel their opinion is more valid than others? They do not know for a fact it is only their opinion.
I do not agree that the Vatican said to ignore the Bishop you are reading into their statement what you want to read.
The fact is by Medjugorie's own books from the very begining by many authors including Fr. Laurentin they have admitted in print that the seer;s have lied ,that their remarks against the bishop were nothing, the disobedience of the Franciscans before the apparitions and even now is an ongoing thing.That does not sound like something Our Lady would be promoting.
From the very beginning there has been a huge propaganda machine manipulating and controlling the whole affair. I was at a conference once about 15 years ago and they collected in one collection over $50,000. Do you know how many conferences there are in the U.S. each year? Multiply that by $50,000. in that one year alone. By now I'm sure the collection is much larger. This does not include the cost of entrance etc. They have been doing this for how long? I can assure you the messages will never end there is too much money involved and the church would surely make a declaration were they to stop and the promoters are very aware of that.
 I used to think that this was a real apparition and then I heard the seers were saying Our Lady told the 2 Franciscans to stay in Medjugorie and disobey the Bishop!!!!! I then started to investigate thinking surely this is just a bunch of lies to discredit the seers,so I read up on it in pretty much all the books that were promoting Medjugorie and to my surprise they not only admitted it but made lite of it as if lieing and disobedience are no big deal. From this I can see and understand why the majority of believers not only insist that this is a real apparition but get very angry if you don't agree with them. They also practically demand that the church approve it. Just recently Fr. Laurentin commented on how wrong the church is to not appove these apparitions.NO THE CHURCH IS NOT WRONG. They would be if they approved them without waiting and making sure it was real. The followers act like they do because they are encouraged to disregard authority by the seers example since this whole thing started(and they do it in the name of Mary)
As has been stated we are not obliged to believe private revelation . It is not a sin to not believe But it is a sin to disobey . The Congregation for the Faith stated very clearly the church is NOT to take pilgimages to Medjugories because this would imply that the church acknowledges it's validity. There are many parishes that are ignoring this directive.They also stated that it CANNOT be said Our Lady is appearing there. It is not an official shrine and yet it is in practically all the books on shrines.
Our Lady is not going to be promoting disregard for the directives of the church. If you read the vatican news you will have read several times in the last few years that a few bishops not one but a few have complained about the division and disobedience caused by the so called apparitions at Medjugorie.
As a last thought phenomena can be from the good and the evil spirit. The appearance of the sun spinning can be from either spirit. It is in no way even close to THE MIRACLE OF THE Sun in FATIMA which could only have been done by God.
 Many people I'm sure have come closer to God when they have gone there but that does not mean that Our Lady is appearing or has ever appeared there. Many people have turned their life around for no apparent reason but Mary did not appear to them. God's grace is all powerful always and everywhere.
 Medjugorie seems to me a mimic of Fatima. 3 seers/ 6 seers, the miracle of the sun /constant spinning of the sun. Medjugorie has said nothing new ,it has only repeated what others have said and has added some questionable declarations and many , many mundane so called messages. The thing that worries me is that the majority of believers are so adamant that this apparition is true and act as if their very life depended on it. That is scary. Pope Benidict is (thank God) cleaning up the church. I am confident if he wishes to get involved in this he will and set everyone straight. Will people listen to him??? The followers will be the ones who will have the hardest time because if the church were to declare it invalid they will not humbly accept it.Where as the unbelievers do not have their lives attached to the validity or invalidity of it. We only want the truth because there is much danger in following a false seer, for we do not know where they may lead us and our judgement can be impaired by phenomena and propaganda. The devil is very astute if you notice he will get more followers by a false apparition than by getting people to not believe in a real one apparition.
1/21/2008, 10:22 pm Send Email to mari9   Send PM to mari9
 
mariantimes
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Re: Detraction Websites

I think your comments are precisely the reason why my website, and this thread, exist - to clear up error and stop it spreading around unchecked. Your comments are full of rehashed comments from anti-medjugorje propoganda websites, which have not been corrected or updated.

MOST OF THE OBJECTIONS OF DISOBEDIENCE THAT PEOPLE ARE CONSTANTLY REPEATING HAPPENED OVER 20 YEARS AGO.

Now, it is certain that lies were told by visionaries in the early days, which were subsequently apologised for. And we understand that in a couple of Our Lady's messages the children were scolded by Our Blessed Mother herself for indiscretions.

But, can we conclude that the behaviour of rash children consitutes a false apparition? After all, Mary's arrival doesn't mean instant sainhood. These days, if you saw the visionaries, you would see living saints. You would see the changes brought about in them. The visionaries are a sober example for all of us that holiness takes time. It rarely happens overnight.

Thankfully, the apparitions HAVE gone on long enough so that people can actually see the changes that have taken place in the visionaries.

FATHER JOZO

Father Jozo was badly wronged, as far as I understand. I have an article on my website that proves that certain sections of the media invented lies about him and the Franciscans. Please read http://www.marian-times.com/articles/medjugorje/medjugorje-franciscans.cfm.

8/25/2008, 10:51 pm Send Email to mariantimes   Send PM to mariantimes
 


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