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wills
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A New Theory Of Mine
Ok let me start by saying that most of us are familiar with the quote that Murdoch wrote on a menu card in 1900.
Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.
Well I done some digging so to speak and found something rather interesting ..
Now at the bottom of the quote he wrote the name MACKAY.Well everyone automatically assumes it is John Henry Mackay. I know I did ..becuase that is what everyone was saying so I believed them to an extent that is.
Where am I going with this? Well there is a poem written by Mackay yes that has that in it. though mind you not word for word but it is as close as we can get to it . Though once you read the poem or the part that I am going to put here then perhaps you can understand why somethings were left out of it.
The poets name was as I said Mackay. But Charles Mackay not J.H.M.
The poem is listed below ..the passage that I am referring too..
If thou in darkest days canst find
an inner brightness in thy mind,
to reconcile thee, to thy kind:-
Whatever obstacles control,
Thine hour will come-go on- true soul!
Thou'lt win the prize,thou'lt reach the goal.
If not -what matters? tried by fire
and purified from low desire ,
thy spirit shall but soar the higher.
Conent and hope thy heart shall buoy,
and men's neglect shall ne'er destroy,
thy secret peace, thy inner joy.
Wow what an incredible poem. I completely understand why he quoted it . If I myself was in his shoes I would have as well. It is a powerful one. I have more information on this Charles Mackay I will post in here a bit later..
anyway this is just my thoughts would love to hear what everyone else thinks..
Will
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Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........
Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.
http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
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Mar/5/2007, 4:05 pm
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MurdochsAid
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Re: A New Theory Of Mine
Interesting theory, Will, and yes--it is a beautiful poem, but...when you read Phillipians 3:13,14, which is similar, that also reads:
quote:
Forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Jesus Christ.
Here's another version (same text) from my The Answers Bible's NCV, that also reads:
quote:
Brothers and sisters, I know that I have not yet reached that goal, but there is one thing I always do. Forgetting the past and straining toward what is ahead, I keep trying to reach the goal and get the prize for which God called me through Christ to the life above.
Perhaps this other Mackay might've actually gotten his inspiration to write his poem straight from the Bible after all. Have you ever thought of that prospect? People were, after all, quite religious back in those yesteryears...even more so than they are today.
MA
Last edited by MurdochsAid, Mar/5/2007, 5:59 pm
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For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth. ~ Romans 1:16
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Mar/5/2007, 5:18 pm
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wills
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Re: A New Theory Of Mine
MA,
I am sorry but at this time and given my state of mind at the moment I can not see the similarities in the poems.
This was suppose to be about Murdoch possibly quoting another author rather then jhmackay..
Which I think is what he did people just automatically thought it was jhm..
Though I have researched his works and even have a book by him and can find no indication that it was indeed him that Murdoch was quoting.
I found this very interesting.
The actual author of the poem was the son of a Naval officer and a poet turned journalist. He lived from 1814 to 1889 so it is possible that Murdoch actually read his works and found him interesting .
I know I did .
will
---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........
Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.
http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
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Mar/5/2007, 5:23 pm
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Lights
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Re: A New Theory Of Mine
Can we PLEASE have an intelligent conversation without you dragging in the bible in every instance, MA? We are WELL AWARE of your hatred for this MacKay, and we are also well aware of your need to drag your beliefs into every %&*£$! discussion, bible-related or not.
Yes, that is an incredible poem, Will. and yes I can see why William would have quoted from it. Also, Mackay is a relatively common Scots name so it could have been another Mackay. And even if it was the Mackay you so dislike, MA, a poem does not become less powerful because of the poet's moral failing.
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"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
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Mar/5/2007, 5:59 pm
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MurdochsAid
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Re: A New Theory Of Mine
After what I stated in my above edited post, Will...by typing the above poem in it's entirety (without leaving out any parts of Charles Mackay's poem) you will see what I mean.
Because people were quite religious way back in the yesteryears (even more than folks are today)...don't you see that perhaps he did indeed get his inspiration right out the Bible after all?
So, let's see it in its entirety. Okay?
MA
Last edited by MurdochsAid, Mar/5/2007, 6:12 pm
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For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth. ~ Romans 1:16
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Mar/5/2007, 6:04 pm
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Lights
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Re: A New Theory Of Mine
So he got the inspiration for this poem from the Bible...so have a lot of poets. They're often set to music and called hymns. It is useless to attempt to discuss any topic requiring intellect MA as you can only parrot what your preachers have fed you.
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"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
http://com3.runboard.com/btheadvert
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Mar/5/2007, 6:32 pm
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MurdochsAid
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Re: A New Theory Of Mine
quote:
Lights wrote:
So he got the inspiration for this poem from the Bible...so have a lot of poets. They're often set to music and called hymns. It is useless to attempt to discuss any topic requiring intellect MA as you can only parrot what your preachers have fed you.
Tsk! Tsk! Well, kiss my grits! 
-MA
Last edited by MurdochsAid, Mar/6/2007, 2:31 pm
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For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth. ~ Romans 1:16
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Mar/6/2007, 1:55 am
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Lights
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Re: A New Theory Of Mine
As I have stated elsewhere, it is impossible for a person to have a rational intelligent conversation with you.
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"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
http://com3.runboard.com/btheadvert
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Mar/6/2007, 10:29 am
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wills
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Re: A New Theory Of Mine
ok back on topic you two..
Yes MA back then a lot of people had more faith in the bible and they lived their lives that way . Godfearing...
However what I was trying to point out is perhaps Will did not want to "overthink" the quote and did not want to push his thoughts on to other people. He was quite a guy always thinking of others. I am sure he could chat all day about religion and such if some people wanted to but the oppurtunity never seemed to arise nor the time ..
However I am sure his respect fro other people is why he left out certain parts. Maybe also he just did not remember the full quote..and changed it a bit to make it his own.
Interesting topic though I think don't you guys?
Will
---
Suicide is a permenant solution to a temporay problem........
Whatever obstacles control,
Go on, true heart,
thou'lt reach the goal.
http://com4.runboard.com/bthetitanicshack
wills~~~~~
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Mar/6/2007, 3:51 pm
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Lights
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Re: A New Theory Of Mine
Excuse me, William but MA is the one trying to hijack the thread by bringing in her religious huff-and-puff. Or is that OK because she is a Christian. Every bloody thread gets this crap brought into it. This, may I remind you, is a TITANIC board, not a board for born-again fundies!
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"What I remember about that night- what I will remember as long as I live- is the people crying out to each other as the stern began to plunge down. I heard people crying, 'I love you.'"
http://com3.runboard.com/btheadvert
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Mar/7/2007, 8:11 am
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